turn 81 : 875 BC - Expecting the enlightenment

[PJayTycy]

While the turn is not in yet, the previous turn-thread has evolved into long-term war plans. We need to decide a few things for turn 875 BC:

=> The oracle will be completed, we'll be able to chose a tech. I think we all agree on machinery?
=> If the pyramids are not yet built, imhotep should build them.
=> Will we change our government ?
-----> hereditary rule : +1 hapiness / mil. unit in a city
-----> representation : +3 labs / specialist and +2 happiness in our top-5 cities
-----> police state : +25% military unit production, -50 % war unhappiness
-----> universal suffrage : +1 gold / town, goldrushing enabled
I think a change to representation would be good.
=> What will we build in Tassagrad ? This kind of depends on the outcome of our war-plan discussion, but will probably either be a scout or our first chokonu. My preference is a scout first. Together with the road and open borders, we can look around in banana territory and maybe find the third city.
=> Assign our engineer in Being to a floodplain, till we grow from pop 3->4 again. Imhotep will build the pyramids, so we better assign all our citizens for maximum food (or maybe BT already did this in the previous turn ?).
=> idle worker near tassagrad should start a mine on the hill he's standing on.
=> our southern scout should move to the forested tundra hill, so we see the mouth of the river and complete the trade route
=> do we sign open borders with GS so the trade route can be opened ?

Let's try to have an answer before the turn arrives, so we can keep the game moving...

[binTravkin]

- machinery
- yes, pyramids
- not this turn, we need to finish pyramids, colossus and settler and research Monotheism before doing it. Representation seems good, police state is too alerting to our opponents, others not worth it. We should also simultaneously switch to Org. rel. if Judaism is ours.
- scout first, it'll be quick and aid a lot in our war effort
- yes, BT did that
- yup
- yup, Sailing's around the corner, additional commerce will be welcome.
- IIRC trade route opens without open borders, but we can offer this agreement anyway as a longer term thing. It's also in our interest if we have Judaism.

[PJayTycy]

one more thing (I don't know how I forgot this one):

=> the new worker in Tassagrad should start roading towards banana.

[binTravkin]

Agreed.

Also - there's a problem fooling our enemies with power score - we cannot delay finishing a chuko if the next build is also a chuko, only if unit types differ we can almost-complete one and start on another.

[Lacero]

Agreed.

We can't fool them at all, all we can do is convince them we're protecting our many, many wonders. Hopefully they'll buy it long enough to give us a few more turns before they build up.

[PJayTycy]

Turn arrived, I'm opening now...

[PJayTycy]

Originally posted by binTravkin
- machinery
- yes, pyramids
- not this turn, we need to finish pyramids, colossus and settler and research Monotheism before doing it. Representation seems good, police state is too alerting to our opponents, others not worth it. We should also simultaneously switch to Org. rel. if Judaism is ours.
- scout first, it'll be quick and aid a lot in our war effort
- yes, BT did that
- yup
- yup, Sailing's around the corner, additional commerce will be welcome.
- IIRC trade route opens without open borders, but we can offer this agreement anyway as a longer term thing. It's also in our interest if we have Judaism.

-> machinery is ours, we can build chuks
-> pyramids will be ours at endturn, nobody has build them yet
-> government not changed yet, as we don't have pyramids yet
-> scout will be ready at endturn
-> BT did not do that The engineer was still working in the forge and one of our floodplains was not worked. One turn will not be enough to grow, so, what do we do next turn? Already starting settler or delaying for one turn (maybe do one turn of collossus in between) ?
-> new worker started roading the cows, other idle worker started mining the hill near Tassagrad
-> scout moved on the hill where GS' scout is still healing (see screenshot)
-> open borders IS needed for trade : see screenshot


midturn save attached for double checking and maybe moving the warrior near our 4th city location.

[PJayTycy]

foreign intelligence (look at the scores in the previous screenshot)

AC :
+3 techpoints : machinery, +1 techpoint : monotheism => +27 points
+1 wonder => +22 points
total => +49 points

Gathering Storm :
+1 pop : third city grew from 2 pop to 3 pop => +6 points

[binTravkin]

BT did not do that The engineer was still working in the forge and one of our floodplains was not worked.

Damn. I remember I was thinking we can live without those 3 engineer gpps, while I switched the engineer to flood plains.

One turn will not be enough to grow, so, what do we do next turn? Already starting settler or delaying for one turn (maybe do one turn of collossus in between)

There's a kind of messup here.
We were talking all the time, we'll finish Colossus after Pyramids.
There's even ongoing chop to try to finish Colossus in a single turn.

-> open borders IS needed for trade : see screenshot

First we need trade route, which we'll have with Sailing.


Where did you move the ax?
It should start moving back to participate in the attack.


Do we have Judaism?

[PJayTycy]

Originally posted by binTravkin
There's a kind of messup here. We were talking all the time, we'll finish Colossus after Pyramids. There's even ongoing chop to try to finish Colossus in a single turn.

Right . So, in that case, there's not really a problem We will grow while building / chopping the colossus. I didn't check how many turns were left before the chop would be finished though.

First we need trade route, which we'll have with Sailing.

Yes, but the discussions / diplomacy about open borders could start already. We can also use the open borders to move our scout inside GS' territory.

Where did you move the ax?
It should start moving back to participate in the attack.

As I said, I didn't move it yet. However, I don't think it has to start moving already. It doesn't need to be earlier than our chuks. I would let the axe patrol around the city4 location to guard it against barbs.

Do we have Judaism?

Nobody else has, so we will have it once we hit endturn.


just to be clear : I have not yet end-turned

[binTravkin]

As I said, I didn't move it yet. However, I don't think it has to start moving already. It doesn't need to be earlier than our chuks. I would let the axe patrol around the city4 location to guard it against barbs.

Well, if so, it can move towards the hill on the sea coast - maybe some new tiles will be uncovered and then run back to the city location, after which travel south to Tassagrad to join forces with other troops.

Yes, but the discussions / diplomacy about open borders could start already. We can also use the open borders to move our scout inside GS' territory.

Ok, I think the only thing we need to discuss is whether we have open borders for trade or also let each others units in.
I don't really see much use of our scout seeing their lands as of now and their scouts can potentially do more damage uncovering our military intentions and movements.

We can state it like: "we'll first sign the trade open borders agreement and then, if all goes well, the full agreement".

Nobody else has, so we will have it once we hit endturn.

Then let us rejoice!


Let's switch to Representation + Org rel. a turn before our first chuko is finished. That way we hide our intentions for a while and (I hope) our settler will be already on the way to settlement place.

[Lacero]

it's one turn anarchy per change isn't it? What do we gain by delaying representation?

[binTravkin]

Ask - what do we gain by switching now.
Our engineer is down into floodplain and even when he isn't, it's mere 3 labs more. Neither of our cities are at hapiness limit either.

Org rel. is only useful with buildings and where the religion is present. I think Beijing wont be the founding city, thus, no use of that either.

Also, both Org. rel and Representation are medium upkeep, which means 1-2 d/turn more into upkeep.

Thus, we should switch in the most appropriate moment - ideally with following conditions present:
- settler is built but not yet founded the city (nor founding it in the anarchy turn)
- our first chukos are 1 turn from ready (so they're done right after anarchy)
- wonder builds are done for now (Colossus is being finished next turn, hopefully)

[Lacero]

ok I see, if we're not at the hapiness limit then I agree it's a waste of a turn right now.

[PJayTycy]

Ok, I endturned it:
* We founded Judaism in Xi'an (Sailing next if Bananas do not answer in time).
* We completed the pyramids in Being (Colossus next, is at 170/250; chopping takes 2 more turns).
* the scout in Tassagrad is born (Chukonu next?)
* baracks are done in Xi'an (Chukonu next?)

I didn't change civics yet, but checked the combined change to representation + org. rel. causes 1 turn of anarchy and increases upkeep from 0 gold to 1 gold / turn.


No power graph analysis yet.