900 BC The First Step To Enlightenment

[Maniac]

I've been out of the loop for long...

1) With how many units and with which units do we plan to start the war?

2) What are the banana defenses? Very crucial to know of course. We have Writing. Do we have an open borders agreement with the Bananas? If so, why don't sign one and try to have a look with some innocent looking scout or galley?

[N35t0r]

Originally posted by binTravkin
I think we can defeat Bananas even if we dispatch those first 4 troops south - that gives us more time chopping, for increased production, also the combined production of Xian(13) and Tassagrad(17) is bigger than the total of Bananas, and that's not even counting the technological advantage.

Which is bound to disappear as soon as our galleys are seen by GS. By the time we get to nanas, we can expect them to have at least a cat or two...

I'd much rather take out the nanas and then see if we can realistically save vox, otherwise evaluate wether to attackk GS then or later.

[Mart]

Originally posted by N35t0r


Which is bound to disappear as soon as our galleys are seen by GS. By the time we get to nanas, we can expect them to have at least a cat or two...

I'd much rather take out the nanas and then see if we can realistically save vox, otherwise evaluate wether to attackk GS then or later.

I would think the same - GS may warn nanas, we would loose advantage.

[binTravkin]

1) With how many units and with which units do we plan to start the war?

Likely a combo of 4-6 chukos, 2 axes and 2 galleys.
Chukos will be produced 1 per 2 turns (Xian + Tassagrad) or faster (if Beijing helps or there's additional chopping) after the war starts.

2) What are the banana defenses? Very crucial to know of course. We have Writing. Do we have an open borders agreement with the Bananas? If so, why don't sign one and try to have a look with some innocent looking scout or galley?

This can strike back - they might send in an agent to watch whether we're not building up.

[Mart]

I remember some time a conversation about open border being open to trade only - no units inside. Is such agreement possible?

[N35t0r]

I'd say that, gamewise, open borders allow both things, it's up to the players to limit them to only trade...

[binTravkin]

Well, we don't need it for trade, only reconnaissance, but by doing it we risk counter-reconnaissance.

[PJayTycy]

I've got the tech path for GS also... I'm now measuring the power graphs values and will try to show (unit+building) power for each of us (ie: without tech and pop power).

======= : 0006 : +006 : tech discovered : 1 tech : mining
======= : 0013 : +007 : tech discovered : 2 tech : the wheel
======= : ---- : ---- : 1 warrior
3960 BC : 0039 : +026 : capital founded (+ 1 pop, + 1 wonder)
3720 BC : 0045 : +006 : tech discovered : 3 tech : mysticism (71 in 6 turns)
3680 BC : 0051 : +006 : population growth : 2 pop (22 in 7 turns)
3440 BC : 0057 : +006 : population growth : 3 pop (24 in 6 turns)
3160 BC : 0064 : +007 : tech discovered : 4 tech : hunting (57 in 14 turns)
2920 BC : 0110 : +007 : tech discovered : 5 tech : archery (85 in 6 turns)
2480 BC : 0116 : +006 : population growth : 4 pop (26 in 24 turns)
2440 BC : 0122 : +006 : tech discovered : 6 tech : Bronze Working (171 in 12 turns)
2240 BC : 0128 : +006 : population growth : 5 pop (28 in 6 turns)
2160 BC : 0135 : +007 : tech discovered : 7 tech : agriculture (85 in 7 turns)
1880 BC : 0142 : +007 : tech discovered : 8 tech : pottery (114 in 7 turns)
1680 BC : 0148 : +006 : city 2 founded : 5+1 pop
1520 BC : 0154 : +006 : tech discovered : 9 tech : writing (171 in 9 turns)
1440 BC : 0160 : +006 : population growth : 5+2 pop (22 in 6 turns)
1320 BC : 0154 : -006 : whipping : 5+1 pop
1280 BC : 0160 : +006 : city 3 founded : 5+1+1 pop
1240 BC : 0166 : +006 : population growth : 5+2+1 pop (whipping grow back)
1160 BC : 0203 : +007 : tech discovered : 10 tech : polytheism (143 in ? turns - switched away from Maths on our request and finished off polytheism in one turn)
1040 BC : 0210 : +007 : tech discovered : 11 tech : masonry (114 in 3 turns)
1040 BC : 0216 : +006 : population growth : 5+3+1 pop (24 in 5 turns)
1000 BC : 0222 : +006 : population growth : 5+3+2 pop (22 in 7 turns)
1000 BC : 0235 : +013 : tech discovered : 13 tech : iron working (received from AC)
0925 BC : 0261 : +013 : tech discovered : 15 tech : mathematics (357 in 14 turns)
0900 BC : 0274 : +013 : tech discovered : 17 tech : alphabet (received from AC)
0900 BC : 0280 : +006 : population growth : 5+4+2 pop (26 in 5 turns)

[Lacero]

3720 BC : 0045 : +006 : tech discovered : 3 tech : mysticism (71 in 6 turns)
3680 BC : 0051 : +006 : population growth : 2 pop (22 in 7 turns)
3440 BC : 0057 : +006 : population growth : 3 pop (24 in 6 turns)
3160 BC : 0064 : +007 : tech discovered : 4 tech : hunting (57 in 14 turns)

I agree Mysticism is the only thing they can have researched in that time, though I've no idea why they went for it. From the crop and gnp graph they worked flood plains only until pop 3 and the total gnp for that amount of time means they should have got Hunting much, much quicker.

Any ideas on what happened to the missing commerce? Did they pre research another tech? Or save some gold for upgrading? Have I misread the graphs?

[PJayTycy]

They tried polytheism to found a religion, but got beaten to it. They researched the rest of polytheism on our request in 1 turn (1160 BC)

[PJayTycy]

Ok, first news about the armies :

AC : 3 forges + 1 barracks + 2 warriors + 2 axemen
Banana : 1 barracks + 4 warriors
GS : 2 warrior + 2 skirmishers + 3* (walls or axemen or spearmen)
Vox : somewhere between (1 wall + 5 warriors + 2 archers) or (1 warrior + 5 archers)

Vox has some +1 power points, which are normally only available with a warrior. However they can also be the loss of a warrior and the completion of an archer or a wall in the same turn. I think the true estimate for Vox could be somewhere in the middle : (1 wall, 3 warriors, 3 archers)
They should be building some horse archers, they have horseback riding, they probably have horses and horse archers have +50 % bonus against cats. If there's any horse tile around vox, I think they settled their second city right on/next to it.

As for GS, they either built 3 spearmen because they think Vox will build horse archers or they built 3 axes. I don't think GS will have invested in walls.

[binTravkin]

Good analysis PJay

GS's army seems impressive even now, when they, by the words of Vox, are not making any offensive.

[Lacero]

Thanks PJ, when I tried to workout the techs I got too caught up with expecting them to go for agriculture/pottery. I forgot no one else started with mysticism so it makes perfect sense for them to attempt a religion rush. oops :O

Is that based on power graphs only or a combination of gnp / crop / mfg and power? I think we can get a very accurate measure of which tiles were worked by GS every turn from the graphs, and so we should be able to work out everything they have built in every city. I'll give it a go if you've not looked at that side yet, I can only get better at this

[PJayTycy]

Originally posted by Lacero
Is that based on power graphs only or a combination of gnp / crop / mfg and power? I think we can get a very accurate measure of which tiles were worked by GS every turn from the graphs, and so we should be able to work out everything they have built in every city. I'll give it a go if you've not looked at that side yet, I can only get better at this

nope, I have not tried to do it in such detail at all. For all foreign intelligence, I have only looked at score, top-5 cities, demographics (for land and pop) and the power score (although only the last 2 days, and I don't know if I'll continue to follow the power graphs every turn)

[PJayTycy]

Impaler, what do you think of this worker / city planning ?

[b]workers[/b]
year	worker 1		worker 2
0	-			-
1	mine (1/4)		walk + road 1 (1/3)
2	mine (2/4)		road 1 (2/3)
3	mine (3/4)		road 1 (3/3)
4	mine (4/4)		walk + road 2 (1/3)
5	walk			road 2 (2/3)
6	walk			road 2 (3/3)
7	road 3 (1/3)		road 3 (2/3)
8	road 3 (3/3)		walk + road 4 (1/3)
9	walk + road 4 (2/3)	road 4 (3/3)
10	walk + road 5 (1/3)	walk + road 5 (2/3)
11	road 5 (3/3)		walk + road 6 (1/3)
12	walk + road 6 (2/3)	road 6 (3/3)
13	walk + road 7a (1/3)	walk + road 7b (1/3)
14	road 7a (2/3)		road 7b (2/3)
15	road 7a	(3/3)		road 7b (3/3)
16	walk + road 8a (1/3)	walk to road 8b
17	road 8a (2/3)		road 8b (1/4)
18	road 8a (3/3)		road 8b (2/4)
19	walk to road 8b		road 8b (3/4)
20	road 8b (4/4)		walk to road 9b		
21	walk to road 9b		road 9b (1/4)
22	road 9b (2/4)		road 9b (3/4)
23	road 9b (4/4)		walk to road 10b
24	walk to road 10b	road 10b (1/4)
25	road 10b (2/4)		road 10b (3/4)
26	road 10b (4/4)


[b]cities[/b]
year	chuks to capital	chuks to south	
0	-			-		
1	tass chuk 1 (1/5)	barracks done	
2	tass chuk 1 (2/5)	xian chuk 1 (1/4)
3	tass chuk 1 (3/5)	xian chuk 1 (2/4)
4	tass chuk 1 (4/5)	xian chuk 1 (3/4)
5	tass chuk 1 (5/5)	xian chuk 1 (4/4)
6	tass chuk 2 (1/4)	xian chuk 2 (1/4)
7	tass chuk 2 (2/4)	xian chuk 2 (2/4)
8	tass chuk 2 (3/4)	xian chuk 2 (3/4)
9	tass chuk 2 (4/4)	xian chuk 2 (4/4)
10	tass chuk 3 (1/4)	xian chuk 3 (1/4)
11	tass chuk 3 (2/4)	xian chuk 3 (2/4)
12	tass chuk 3 (3/4)	xian chuk 3 (3/4)
13	tass chuk 3 (4/4)	xian chuk 3 (4/4)
14	tass chuk 4 (1/4)	xian chuk 4 (1/4)
15	tass chuk 4 (2/4)	xian chuk 4 (2/4)
16	tass chuk 4 (3/4) 	xian chuk 4 (3/4)
17	tass chuk 4 (4/4)	xian chuk 4 (4/4)
18	tass chuk 5 (1/4)	walk to road -4	
19	tass chuk 5 (2/4)	walk to road -3	
20	tass chuk 5 (3/4)	walk to road -1	
21	tass chuk 5 (4/4)	walk to road 1	
22	walk to road 1		walk to road 3	
23	walk to road 3		walk to road 5	
24	walk to road 5		walk to road 7b	
25	walk to road 7a		walk to road 9b	
26	walk unroaded 1		walk unroaded 1
27	walk unroaded 2		attack with 4 chuks
28	attack with 5 chuks