Commitee of Strategic Planning

[binTravkin]

That is true, can anyone tell where stats of settled GPs are listed?

[Lacero]

From a civfanatics forum post:

Great Artist: 3 gold per turn, 12 culture per turn

Great Engineer: 3 hammers per turn, 3 science per turn

Great Merchant: 1 food per turn, 6 gold per turn

Great Prophet: 2 hammers per turn, 5 gold per turn

Great Scientist: 1 hammer per turn, 6 science per turn

[PJayTycy]

I assume the gold from a great merchant is multiplied with all +science% from buildings (eg: library). What about the science from a great scientist?

EDIT: I mistaked, if the Bananas are unwary of our battle plans, we can take cap in 12-13 turns with 2 chukos and ax.

I'd rather not. Use atleast 4 chuks.

[binTravkin]

I'd rather not. Use atleast 4 chuks.

See, the sooner we attack, the quicker we kill them. If our ax wasn't far north we could attack much sooner.
The first wave should be 3 chukos and ax - even if they get warned they won't expect the attack so soon, but if they will, we'll be able to see their military buildup from intelligence and delay as appropriate.

[Lacero]

or tear up the country side, sit on top of horses etc.

[PJayTycy]

Originally posted by binTravkin
The first wave should be 3 chukos and ax

You said 2 in your previous message. I guess I can live with 3

[binTravkin]

Well, I mistaked in calculations.
It goes like this:

Moving from Xian to Tassagrad takes 4 turns, so at the moment Tassagrad produces 2nd chuko, the one from Xian will arrive making a stack of 3.

Ideally we should then have 2 waves:
1st 3 chukos and an ax should be able to take out capital
2nd 1more chuko + sword + ax should be dispatched on the next city (I guess it'll be the third city, so army there should be small.

Finally they all and 1-2 more chukos meet battle-hardened at 3rd city and get it.

[Impaler[WrG]]

Settling the Merchant and Engineer look rather attractive with the Representation boost

[binTravkin]

Our recent generous usage of pop-rushing for rapidly finishing Oracle, the abundance of Mfg. goods for us (and yet the scarcity currently available for non-military production) compared to other civs and some more fiddling with build plans have given me some ideas about proper rushing practices.


First, let's remember that there are two types of rushing available (the money rushing doesn't count for now and is not viewed in this context) - whipping and chopping.
The main characteristic separating the two is that while chopping gives you a base of 30h (with Maths) multiplied by all the available modifiers, whipping on the other hand, provides a number of modifier-unchanged bundles, and this number rarely exceeds 2 bundles per 1 whipped pop.


Second, let's define production types:
- wonder
- building
- unit
- reproduction (settlers and workers)


The available modifiers on our production range from +25% to +200%, and applies to chopping bonus, while the available modifiers for whipping are mostly 50%(2 pop for 3 bundles) or 100%(1 pop for 2 bundles) for usual production and mostly less than 50% for wonders (as they take double pop for a bundle).
This basically means, that apart from knowing that pop is a reusable resource, whereas chop isn't, most construction with 100% and less modifiers should rather be whipped than chopped, especially when it comes to producing workers and settler, which stop growth and therefore should be rushed in any city that is growing.

Next, let's look at the wonders.
The main difference between chopping and whipping wonders is that whipping a wonder takes double pop compared to whipping other things, while chopping for a wonder actually gives at least +50% boost to hammers resulting!

Thinking along these lines leads to conclusion that the best and really the only recommended use for chopping is wonder rushing, while whipping should be always used to speed up the growth impeding workers and settlers.
Whips should also be considered well-placed if they are used to create growth-aiding buildings like Granary and Lighthouse, as well as trait-boosted buildings like Forge is for Industrious.
Whip feasibility is also limited by lost production output from the lost citizen(-s) due to regrowth and whip unhappiness.


Having said that, I admit that chopping forest to speed up settler by one turn was a stupid idea.

I just don't know what do we do with it now - do we continue to chop or ignore the 2 lost turns with that move and assign it somewhere else?

If we continue to chop, we should use the chop amount (+37) to insta-build work boat for 4th city.
If we choose to cancel chop, we have an extra 52+ hammers to invest in GL or any other wonders (in which case it's likely to be bigger).

The difference now is 15h and it will grow later.
I guess, the decision should be based on how much hammers we lose by reassigning it, which I guess is amount no bigger than 10h.
However, a work boat could actually prove a worthwhile investment as it would more than double the initial growth of 4th city making it achieve 2pop in 7 turns (instead of 11), 3pop in 4 more turns and 4pop in 3 more turns, allowing to get Granary just 14turns after founding of the city (at which point much more rapid growth starts).

[ForesterSOF]

set to chop

[Lacero]

The work boat is worth it IMHO.

[Impaler[WrG]]

With boat the coastal fish is a 4-0-4 yield, thats nothing to sneeze at. Getting that city up and running fast will produce a lot of commerce and start returning our investment on the Colossus. We should build a Lighthouse by whip first followed by a Granary. All workers to the sea for maximum Commerce. If Yangism doesn't organically spread soon we should send a Missionary after Banana Peel is done and expand the radius to add wheat farm for further sustained growth and more plots to work. After first two buildings we should just max out the population till we hit the happy cap at around 7 then perhaps whip a Library to maximize research.

[binTravkin]

Actually 5-0-4

We should build a Lighthouse by whip first followed by a Granary.

Need to check which one provides better growth but I think it's Granary.

If Yangism doesn't organically spread soon we should send a Missionary after Banana Peel is done and expand the radius to add wheat farm for further sustained growth and more plots to work.

The missionary should be coming right after settlement - this city will need the wheat resource for max growth and we should utilize it asap.
Also Judaism + Org.rel. will allow us to have efficient whips.

After first two buildings we should just max out the population till we hit the happy cap at around 7 then perhaps whip a Library to maximize research.

Yes, with Granary and Lighthouse it should reach maximum pop in 25 turns after settled.
Library should come as the third building, followed by forge.

[Impaler[WrG]]

If were going to have the wheat accessed soon then yes Granary would seem to be the better first build. I'm hoping that the bonus Commerce from this city breaks us even on the maintenance cost quickly we will need it to turn a profit and help support the conquests ASAP.

[Mart]

The attack is planned without catapults?
What their capital can be now? +60%?

- if bananas have archer, estimating:
+50% city defense
+20% ??? hills defense
+60 % city
other...
~ 6.9 strength?