Three-way Trade Negotiations

[Mudhut]

I too am keen to help, but I don't think I should be "the main man". I'm just not online enough - and the diplo person really does need to be very easily contactable.

But am very keen to help with drafting formal messages and stuff. It's more the chats and accessibility that I would struggle with.

[Krill]

From past experience with diplomacy I'm the last person you want in charge of foreign relations.

[Arrian]

Diplo message:

Friends,
Our wise leaders have gone to the mountain for guidance from the Great Banana whose name dare not be uttered. They smoked banana peels for 7 days as is our custom. They sought to understand why the nations that are counted as friends of the banana have stopped talking when we were so close to a deal that would take our three nations to greatness. The Great Banana granted our wise men answers in a vision.

The Great Banana spoke thus: "If friends have not sent word, the cause is your own. Wear the moistened leaves of banana shrub 'round thine brows 'til friends they prove to be. I have spoken!"

"Oh yes! Almost forgot. I gift to you the drink of the heavens. Share this knowledge with the world. Now stop burning these peels you are stinking up my mountain."

Our wise men imediately put out their peels, headed home and brewed the drink of the heavens. I am proud to share this gift with you in the hope that the 3T might be ratified and acted on, and that we might remove these wet - though blessed - leaves from our heads.

Yea! Banana!

[Arrian]

Are they waiting on us? I thought it was AC that was being slow...

Hrm. We need to step up and get this deal done. NYE has asked for help and thus far nobody has really come forward. As I said, I'm not the guy (I'm already the backup turn player, anyway), but I'm willing to help.

CALLING STORMIAN DIPLOMATS!! Your talents are required.

-Arrian

[Ennet]

As I hinted at above Im willing to take partial resposibility from the 5th February and onward. I do would need another person to aid me with the task however as I cant reliably be available every day.

[notyoueither]

That would be great, Ennet. I'm sure some people will help you out. I will as time allows.

[notyoueither]

In the mean time. I was on last night and spotted Impaler. We had a chat.

Session Start: Sat Jan 27 21:38:55 2007
Session Ident: Impaler[WrG]
Session Ident: Impaler[WrG] (Impaler@ip70-171-203-145.tc.ph.cox.net)
[21:38] Impaler[WrG]> howdy
[21:39] nye> hello
[21:39] nye> how are things?
[21:40] Impaler[WrG]> Rather boring with team AC as far as game play goes, just chuging away on alphabet
[21:40] Impaler[WrG]> I haven't been very active and as a result I steped down from my diplomate position
[21:41] nye> we are curious what ACen think of the emails from us and nana re treaty
[21:41] nye> oh, sorry to hear about the diplo
[21:41] Impaler[WrG]> is this a resent message I haven't checked messages in weeks
[21:42] nye> going back to early december. we sent messages. nana sent messages. we get nothing back
[21:43] nye> sorry, message was sent dec 20
[21:43] Impaler[WrG]> last I heard we were obosed to the modifications the banans wanted
[21:44] nye> who on ACen is tasked to let us know what your ideas are?
[21:44] Impaler[WrG]> I think their going to coble toget some scraps from my last bit of writing and send out a message soon
[21:44] nye> we would appreciate hearing something.
[21:45] Impaler[WrG]> what specificly do you need to know
[21:45] nye> what ACen wants
[21:46] Impaler[WrG]> Tech dealing was the main thing, were still some ways from Alphabet
[21:46] Impaler[WrG]> what was the deal again, I think it was Alphabet + IW 4 Math + ??
[21:47] nye> i think there was a larger deal being discussed
[21:48] nye> if ACewn doesn;t want to do it, just say so
[21:48] Impaler[WrG]> you mean the three way framework agreement thing
[21:48] nye> yes
[21:48] Impaler[WrG]> were still for it
[21:48] nye> under what terms?
[21:49] Impaler[WrG]> let me check forum a moment
[21:50] Impaler[WrG]> let me go over the sequence here, GS proposed its initial trety plan, then Banana offered amendments, AC hasn't responded to amendments yet
[21:51] nye> true
[21:51] nye> or to our initial email
[21:51] nye> or at least, we did not receive
[21:52] Impaler[WrG]> I think our position is favoring the initial version or atleast oposing the amendment
[21:52] nye> ok. can you let us know when that is firm?
[21:52] Impaler[WrG]> PJ looks like he might take over as diplomate too
[21:52] nye> PJ?
[21:52] Impaler[WrG]> PJayTycy
[21:52] nye> have I met PJ?
[21:53] Impaler[WrG]> he plays our turn everyone and a while
[21:53] nye> I will look forward to hearing from him.
[21:53] nye> Good communication makes for good alliances.
[21:54] nye> and trades
[21:54] nye> and generally contributes to winning games
[21:54] nye> hehe
[21:54] Impaler[WrG]> true true, I'm sorry I havent been active, but I have good reason, ask Blake he will vouch for me...
[21:55] nye> i heard you had been busy. that would explain me leaving you alone for so long
[21:55] nye> but it gets to a point that we wonder at the absence of contact
[21:55] Impaler[WrG]> ahh so you had heard
[21:56] nye> no specifics. i hope you and yours are well
[21:56] Impaler[WrG]> ok well let me see here the Banana amendment proposal concerned a two points I belive
[21:57] Impaler[WrG]> Oh yes, its a good kind of busy
[21:57] nye> good to hear
[21:58] Impaler[WrG]> ok the first part of Nana amendment was rule about trading
[21:58] Impaler[WrG]> each of the three civs agrees not to retrade any technology to a non-member party acquired in trade from one of the three; without prior agreement of all three member nations.
[21:58] nye> yes
[21:58] Impaler[WrG]> thats the wording they proposed last I heard
[21:59] Impaler[WrG]> that would allow us to re-trade amongst each other which we didnt like
[21:59] nye> that is problamatical. they want to be able to retrade techs they get from ACen to Poly, and the other way
[21:59] nye> cross typed
[21:59] Impaler[WrG]> were in favor of this wording
[21:59] nye> we don;t like it either
[21:59] Impaler[WrG]> each of the three civs agrees not to retrade any technology acquired in trade from one of the three; without prior agreement of the researching nation.
[22:00] nye> i believe i can say that poly agrees
[22:00] Impaler[WrG]> poly?
[22:00] Impaler[WrG]> you mean GS?
[22:00] nye> sorry, gs... have being consul of poly on the brain
[22:01] Impaler[WrG]> oh the inter-site DG?
[22:01] nye> yes
[22:01] nye> been a long time, a lot of turns.
[22:01] Impaler[WrG]> hows that coming, I might casualy observe it, no time to join though
[22:02] nye> i must be careful of what i say in that regard, as not all readers may be on the same team... but we are not unhappy with the state of the game
[22:03] nye> if you are in the c3c isdg forum, you should check them out from time to time
[22:03] Impaler[WrG]> well I admit I flirt with CFC due to it being the stronger site for moder but in my heart I am a true Polyista
[22:03] nye> understandable
[22:04] nye> at any rate, going back to the nana proposals...
[22:04] Impaler[WrG]> ok well their was also a proposal by Banana about some kind of expiration clause
[22:04] nye> gs agrees with you about nana's proposed #2
[22:05] nye> expiration clause?
[22:05] Impaler[WrG]> Our position is that thats unessary because this all just a framework agreement anyways
[22:06] Impaler[WrG]> Quote
[22:06] Impaler[WrG]> Do we need a 6th point that defines the duration of the agreement, or is this for all time? Someone pick a date, age or tech far in the future. This is not a sticking point but it is something that should be defined.
[22:07] nye> i agree. i don;t see a need for a 6th point
[22:07] Impaler[WrG]> ok well it sounds like GS and AC are in agrement on the treaty term
[22:08] nye> it sounds as if ACen agrees with what I originally sent. If that were communicated to both GS and Nana, we would be very close to a done deal.
[22:08] nye> cross-typed, but yes
[22:08] Impaler[WrG]> The point are as follows
[22:08] Impaler[WrG]> 1. Trade by Beakers with equality as goal
[22:09] Impaler[WrG]> 2. No re-trades within the group
[22:09] nye> or outside of it
[22:10] Impaler[WrG]> hold on, do you mean that if a group member had a tech from a 4th team they couldn't trade it with a group member or the reverse, group member dont re-trade techs outside the group
[22:11] nye> the reverse, couldn't trade a tech from within to the outside... without a side deal of course
[22:12] nye> the treaty only covers the three and things we get from each other. outside sources would be wlecome
[22:12] Impaler[WrG]> ok that makes sense, we should probably make that second point me explicit on that
[22:12] nye> 'from one of the other three'
[22:12] nye> but it could be elaborated on
[22:12] nye> sorry, 'from one of the three'
[22:13] Impaler[WrG]> ok well we agree in principle what it should say, minutia of wording can be worked out
[22:14] nye> agreed
[22:14] Impaler[WrG]> point 3, no backing out of agreed trades because of outside premature aquisition of the tech
[22:15] nye> the points i wrote out were in accord with our chat, so i am not surprised that ACen agrees. all that is needed is some official communication to that affect
[22:15] Impaler[WrG]> like a goody hut or something
[22:15] nye> goody hut exactly
[22:16] nye> we all have to be able to count on the deals made
[22:16] nye> or we each have to think in isolation
[22:16] Impaler[WrG]> ok well I'll tell AC to make a formal anouncment of our acceptance of the GS treaty terms and urge Bananas to accept them as well
[22:17] nye> that would be great
[22:18] Impaler[WrG]> if for some reason Banans cant agree (unlikly) this could be a bi-laterl agreement so its not a total waste of time
[22:18] nye> it could be.
[22:18] Impaler[WrG]> I'm fairly shure they will come along though
[22:18] nye> nana could throw spanners in the works though, so we believe it would be better to have them along
[22:19] Impaler[WrG]> yes a three-some would be better
[22:19] nye> indeed
[22:20] Impaler[WrG]> do you think we should come up with a amendment/expantion provision
[22:20] nye> earlier chats still apply. nana is north of the choke point. that would be in ACen's sphere of influence
[22:21] Impaler[WrG]> something like "All expantions to the treaty group and amendments to this treaty must be unanimously agreed upon by the members"
[22:21] nye> that would be agreeable
[22:22] Impaler[WrG]> ok well that looks good
[22:22] nye> we will look forward to receiving a formal communication
[22:22] Impaler[WrG]> so how have things been going with you guys game wise
[22:23] nye> ok. the choke goes on, with a while to go
[22:23] Impaler[WrG]> yes it will take some time to strangle Vox
[22:24] Impaler[WrG]> I remember seeing that you had a good bost in your commerce a bit ago
[22:24] nye> well, they aren't going anywhere, and aren't building anything of consequence, so the end of it is not in much doubt
[22:25] nye> 2nd city. 3rd very soon
[22:26] nye> a war is no reason not to develop... it is an old gs proverb
[22:28] Impaler[WrG]> a wise one
[22:28] Impaler[WrG]> I also see were getting that scout near your territory
[22:29] nye> how far now?
[22:29] Impaler[WrG]> we just reached the coastal mountan range
[22:30] nye> yeah, i guess you want a coastal path asap
[22:30] Impaler[WrG]> its going to be tricky to get cause of the blocked vision
[22:30] nye> we will oblige with a port as soon as we can work one in
[22:31] Impaler[WrG]> ok well if your upcoming 3rd city is going to be coastal we might put a higher priority on scouting the route
[22:31] nye> not the third city, maybe 4th
[22:32] Impaler[WrG]> if the 4th is the soonest then we were not realy ver pressed for time
[22:32] nye> things come quickly now
[22:32] Impaler[WrG]> were still behind scedual on our road link with nanas
[22:33] Impaler[WrG]> so much more urgent building to do and were still only at one worker, second one in planning limbo
[22:34] nye> no problem. i was trying to let you know that we are anxious for trade as well, just that we have an enemy on our doorstep, so plans for dealing with that tend to take precedence
[22:34] Impaler[WrG]> naturaly
[22:36] nye> do you know if PJ is going to prefer chats or emails/PMs?
[22:38] Impaler[WrG]> No idea, infact I cant realy be shure he will comit to it perminent, he hammered out only one message so far on forum
[22:38] Impaler[WrG]> PM him and I'll give the word on my end that GS want a formal full time diplomate from us
[22:38] nye> we look forward to hearing from our contact, if replaced you must be
[22:40] Impaler[WrG]> yes I hope my team dosn't blow the diplomatic good will I've built up :P
[22:41] nye> friends understand the odd rough spot. what is important is that we keep the lines of communication open going forward
[22:43] Impaler[WrG]> yes Its lucky this happened in a relitivly slow period of the game, but as we get closer to Alphabet we need to get on the ball with comunications and stay that way.
[22:43] nye> yes
[22:44] Impaler[WrG]> ok well if their are no further points you want to discuss I was going to go frolock through the forums
[22:45] nye> happy frolocking
[22:45] Impaler[WrG]> good night
[22:46] nye> g'night
Session Time: Sun Jan 28 00:00:00 2007
Session Close: Sun Jan 28 15:08:53 2007

[notyoueither]

A brief note to Nana would be in order. Something about the fact we've had a chat with Impaler and that both they and we should be expecting news from ACen soon.

Saying anything about ACen's preferences might not be wise though. It is not our place to speak for ACen, and Impaler could in fact be mistaken about some things.

[Arrian]

[DRAFT]

To the people of the Great Banana,

The pungent smell of smoked banana peel awoke the peoples of the Storm and Alpha Centauri, and they held converse (NYE and Impaler had a chat). The people of Alpha Centauri will soon put forth a response to the proposals of the people of the GB.

The people of the Storm eagerly await the thoughts of the aliens our Centaurian friends and look forward to the signing of the treaty between our three nations.

[signed whomever sends it]
The Gathering Storm

[END DRAFT]

...

Anybody like this for a war chant?

Lightning makes thunder
Gale drives rain
Tree split asunder
The Storm brings pain!

-Arrian

[notyoueither]

That's a good message, and a good chant.

[Godel]

Originally posted by Arrian
Anybody like this for a war chant?

[Mudhut]

Yup. Send it Arrian, no point delaying.

Although does one desribe a conversation as a "held converse"? Maybe change to just "and they conversed." But they will get the point anyway.

B.

[Arrian]

Hold converse was a deliberate attempt at using archaic language. I have no problem with changing it.

...

As noted by NYE:

The Bananas want messages emailed to their GMail account. They didn't like PMs.

I cannot access GMAIL until tonight, as I am at work. If someone else can, please send the message.

-Arrian

[Krill]

Sent Via GMail. +1

[Arrian]

Thank you, Krill.

-Arrian