Spartan Academy: General Discussions

[Arrian]

Ok, I figure it's time to open up a thread on all things military.

Currently, we can't really discuss anything beyond vague hypotheticals, since we don't know which leader we will get, what the map will be like, what our start looks like... anything, really.

But we're still managing to threadjack other threads, so, yeah, it's time.

-Arrian

[Solomwi]

I'll go ahead and say it, because I know Theseus voted for me just so he'd be certain never to be alone in this argument... Marines rock.

I'll go a step further and say that a handful of axes, swords, maces, rifles, infantry, etc. with amphibious promotions rock, too. It's something we may want to look toward down the line with early promos. A couple of shiploads of these guys can bring enough unpredictability to keep an enemy off balance, and if we have control of the enemy's coast, or at least the part in which we're operating, they can be practically indestructible. Just stick one medic in the stack, attack the city with whichever units get good enough odds, then pull back into high seas and heal while your land forces finish taking the city. Or just keep repeating to keep enemy forces tied down away from the front without actually having to hold the city. Obviously, the counter is to sink our ships, which necessitates a strong escort. Just as obviously, this will be much more viable if we get an aggressive civ.

[Krill]

Oh yeah, and I thought that the Amphib bonus comes after Combat 2, correct?

[DeepO]

I love amphibious cavs, which seem to come relatively easily with an AGR leader. Without AGR, it's much harder though, and I'll generally go over land with all non-marine units.

Navy is so important, it's scary. Only the first, early rush doesn't need a naval part. Galley invasions are interesting too, they can tie up a lot of forces just threatening the coast. But for them to become important you need to circumnavigate the globe.

Galleons, though, rule the seas. Any amphibious unit on a galleon only adds to the threat.

DeepO

[Solomwi]

Correct. If we're aggressive, that means a barracks-born unit is only 1 XP from it, and is born with enough XP under theocracy. If not, we're 6/4 XP away with the same unit. We could still find ourselves in a position to make it viable. I think the key will be how much of a navy we can scare up.

On a tangent, unless we have an overwhelming need for the building bonus, I'd rather be in theocracy. Not only do we get an extra promo for new units (both barracks and non-barracks, and assuming we aren't running vassalage), but it minimizes the amount of religious intelligence our foes can gather.

[Arrian]

Wait... I thought AGG civs got Combat I on melee and gunpowder units... are Cav classified as GP, not Mounted?

We're rather unlikely to be AGG, though. Our top 4 are non-agg civs.

-Arrian

[Solomwi]

DeepO, amphibious cavs are indeed great. I don't use them much on a large scale, because you lose their mobility bonus. A few amphibious cavs in a land force, though, can be highly useful for one reason: rivers. They can take the cap off that enemy force camped behind the river, either giving the rest easier matchups that they can win despite the 25% hit or buying a turn for maneuvering to avoid the 25%.

[Solomwi]

Originally posted by Arrian
Wait... I thought AGG civs got Combat I on melee and gunpowder units... are Cav classified as GP, not Mounted?

We're rather unlikely to be AGG, though. Our top 4 are non-agg civs.

-Arrian

Cavs are indeed Mounted. I cross-posted with DeepO, so my "Correct" was meant for Krill.

[Solomwi]

Weird. I somehow re-posted my post to Krill without realizing it. Stupid back button.

[Arrian]

True. Although Pacifism and its 100% bonus to GP-production has its uses.

-Arrian

[DeepO]

Hum... I was wondering why cavs didn't came with amphibious promotions out the gate, when they are level 3... of course, mounted doesn't receive the bonus.

I agree some river-crossers can be good, but rarely use them like that.

DeepO

[DeepO]

Originally posted by Arrian
True. Although Pacifism and its 100% bonus to GP-production has its uses.

-Arrian

As does Org Rel. Or free rel when saving money. Which is why I'm such a proponent of SPI

DeepO

[Solomwi]

This is true, but raises two questions (bear in mind, I haven't used Pacifism in SP yet, so I need edumacating on it ):

1) What of the increased support cost?

I'm working under the assumption, born out in previous demogames, that we'll want to have a significant standing army at all times, which means we won't have much of a clear-cut window in which we can reap the benefits without a hit from the downside. Still may be worth it, so I guess my question all depends on how our economy is doing at a given point.

2) What are the "undocumented" facets of Pacifism?

In particular, I'm interested in whether it increases war-weariness here. I haven't done any real investigation into how WW works, but it seems to be tied to certain civics more than anything else.

I think Pacifism becomes more viable later on, when it's harder for religions to spread, or when we aren't very concerned with another team gathering intelligence on our cities and troop movements. Once we go down that route (or Org, for that matter), though, we won't be able to root out any other religions that spread, and that benefit of theocracy is shot.

[Solomwi]

Originally posted by DeepO

I agree some river-crossers can be good, but rarely use them like that.

DeepO

It's too situation-specific to make a bunch of them, but a few are worthwhile.

[DeepO]

For those questions to get answered, I think the SDK has to be released. Then, no more guesses need to be made, some people will simply read it from code and post it. Testers could do it right now, or at least in part, but it's really not fun to wade through loads of code someone else wrote...

I wasn't aware there was any effect of pacificism on ww. But I would never use the civic except in short bursts to get 2 or 3 GPs... it's too costly.

For our cities, I think we will be looking at at least 2-3 defenders at first, up to 5 defenders per city later. Which is why her. rule. can be so important, and pacifism is something to taste very small quantities off.

DeepO