Spartan academy revisited

[Arrian]

Originally posted by Solomwi
Arrian, I'm thinking more in terms of once drydocks become available. Setting two shipbuilding cities up gives us flexibility, in that we can produce a line of ships in one or the other, to let the other keep building a needed improvement, or turn both to ships in case of emergency.

Ah, ok, sure. Drydocks come pretty late.

-Arrian

[DeepO]

Lately, I've come to appreciate the superearly workboat or two... great for scouting. You won't run into barb galleys this soon, and offensive nations won't have the navy to go after your workboats anyway.

In SP, when some AI is waiting to invade you, they will leave a workboat alone even if you sail right next to their capital loaded with galleys during a war. I just had a game where I sailed a workboat through Japanese waters after they declared war, saw I couldn't pass on the other side, turned around, and sailed back.

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As to barracks cities being focused on units through the whole of the game: no worries, that will happen. It's the only way I know of in CIV to be highly efficient, and we did the same in PTW as well. But even than, there might be ways to MMing, especially if we switch between Org Rel and the 2XP civic (forgot the name). Simply making sure all units are getting 6 XP and not 4XP requires MMing. But it can be done, if there is enough time to put units on hold.

DeepO

[DeepO]

Drydocks will probably be build in half our coastal cities, if not more. Many coastals won't get hit by the health disadvantage anyway, so better to prepare them while we can for things to come.

But we need a big navy long before that time, most likely.

DeepO

[Arrian]

Theocracy

Hey, that brings up the prebuilding idea again. Say we prebuild a bundle of units in various cities, never finishing any. Then we switch over to Theocracy for the minimum 5 turns, pumping out those units. Then back to Org. Rel (or Pacifism, or whatever we'd rather run).

-Arrian

[DeepO]

Originally posted by Arrian
Agree - sentries, including religion (if we're able - I suspect other teams will not want our missionaries in their lands), will be important.

This might be a diplomatic issue, but I certainly see uses of exchanging missionaries. At any rate, the least we can do is make sure all our cities get our religion(s), which might lead to spontanic spreading, especially if we've built our shrine(s).

Emergency response... a reserve of cash for emergency upgrades, chopping (I'm thinking forests that are left with 1 turn left needed for chopping, roaded... so that we can insta-chop them in dire emergency, whilst keeping them around for as long as we can for health benifits) and poprushing. Especially if we chose a SPI civ, once nationhood is available, that becomes a key part of emergency response planning.

Nationhood and SPI is the perfect combination. Let's hope that we get that far, but if we do we shouldn't have a problem in getting an edge there... go to nationhood, draft 15 units in 5 turns if possible, go back to whatever else you've got, and invade. By the time ww starts to hit you, the happy-loss is over, and your cities are their original size again.

Has anyone really messed around with prebuilding units, switching to something else, and coming back? I know that Firaxis added decay of builds put aside in order to counter the possible exploit of pre-building a massive army that could appear as if by magic in 1 turn (w/o costing you any upkeep until then). But I don't know how the decay works, exactly.

I've yet to truely experience decay. I mean, I know it's in, but I don't know the specifics (once we need it, that's easily looked into, though). decay doesn't bother me, though, and I switch all the time.

Most obvious: prebuilding e.g. a barracks for 1 turn, so that your city grows before building a settler. Or, prebuilding units, but wait to finish them until you can switch to e.g. Vassalage. Or, start on something, but a wonder+prereq building become available which you want to build first. Once the wondr completes, go back...

A lot of options, and the decay isn't that bad for my feeling... I've lost a couple of prebuilds because extremely long waits (2 turn prebuild on barracks before my first settler, go back 4000 years later once the initial wonder race is over and all settlers have been build), but rarely.

DeepO

[DeepO]

Originally posted by Arrian
Theocracy

Thanks... you know how good I am in remembering this stuff

Hey, that brings up the prebuilding idea again. Say we prebuild a bundle of units in various cities, never finishing any. Then we switch over to Theocracy for the minimum 5 turns, pumping out those units. Then back to Org. Rel (or Pacifism, or whatever we'd rather run).

-Arrian

It works for sure... which is why I say that we shuold really separate between the two: MMing on one hand, strategic planning on another. Doesn't mean you can't be active in both, though.

DeepO

[Krill]

Nobody bring this up on the test forum guys...

DeepO, the early workboat is just another curragh from C3C. I know you won't have used it, but to the rest, the idea will be familiar, I'm sure...

I've been thinking of this type of MM for a while, and I have to admit it can be decent.

The civic pairs are something along the lines of Caste System+Pacifism, Theo+Police State (If Pyramids)...I'm sure I missed alot more, but my mind just went blank...

[DeepO]

Originally posted by Krill
Nobody bring this up on the test forum guys...

DeepO, the early workboat is just another curragh from C3C. I know you won't have used it, but to the rest, the idea will be familiar, I'm sure...

It's familiar, perhaps, it has been mentioned in the strat forum too (and certainly in test). Just how poerful it can be.... I don't know if that's so common knowledge.

But anyway, maybe it won't give us an edge, but we need to do it to to not get behind at least

As to SPI allowing you to MMing unit builds: It is known by Soren. It's not a big deal, I think, as Org Rel costs more. You can only switch efficiently in barracks cities, the normal ones follow the more obvious path.

DeepO

[Hot Mustard]

Given where this discussion is going, do we want to go after the Pyramids? Assuming we have at least a good production site to do so, or even better, stone. It would dramatically increase the value of SPI and our strengths.

[Arrian]

Personally, I love early workboats... when I have seafood resources in my start! I really, really, really love starts w/seafood (in SP, anyway).[/tangent]

One other thing the Spartans will need to plan and discuss with the Smiths: our road network.

Ok, any thoughts on who should be our SecDef (Minister of Defense, for you Euros )? Given that I agree with DeepO that the position should emphasize organizing the Scholia's decisions and communicating them to the turnplayer (instead of turn-by-turn MMing of military moves), I would be willing to do the job, if the team approves. I certainly spend enough time on this forum!!

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Originally posted by dejon
Given where this discussion is going, do we want to go after the Pyramids? Assuming we have at least a good production site to do so, or even better, stone. It would dramatically increase the value of SPI and our strengths.

I would be willing to take a shot at the Pyramids under the following circumstanes:

1) We're industrious and no one else is. Unlikely, but possible.

2) We're industrious and have early access to stone.

3) We're not industrious but have stone, a ton of forest and got lucky somehow (such as, say, popping tech from huts to speed us on our way).

Otherwise, I'd say it's too risky. And... this may be heresy, but I'm not actually as enamored of the Pyramids as many others appear to be...

-Arrian

[DeepO]

Originally posted by dejon
Given where this discussion is going, do we want to go after the Pyramids? Assuming we have at least a good production site to do so, or even better, stone. It would dramatically increase the value of SPI and our strengths.

I think it is highly map dependent. With Stone, by all means: yes! Without it, it's not worth the risk, IMHO. We're not IND most likely, which means we'll be in the disadvantage: better to focus on our strengths instead.

Her. Rule will get us far anyway... purely for happiness, it might beat Repr. We need a lot of defenders in our cities anyway, the moment we've got 3 (not that much), we get 3 happy...

In most of my games, that column is the least switched in SPI games, even if sometimes temporarily running something else might be better (police state is also in the same column, right?). Her. Rule is very powerful, even if pure tech-wise Rep can be better.

DeepO

[Krill]

Arrian, the main thing that would stop me from voting for you on that issue is that I would not want you to get fired from your job because you were not doing any work...

[DeepO]

Originally posted by Arrian
3) We're not industrious but have stone, a ton of forest and got lucky somehow (such as, say, popping tech from huts to speed us on our way).

No need to be lucky in techs, with stone it only requires 2 techs for the Pyramids: Masonry and BW (rushing). Which leaves plenty of time to try for a religion first, or go for some worker techs...

If we see stone, we should halt everything, and ask ourselves if we can go for, or switch to the Pyramids. Intelligence might tell us more as well... wonder builds were quite easily spotted before from the power and score graphs

DeepO

[Arrian]

Yeah, I *am* going to have to restrain myself a bit.

DeepO - good point about Her. Rule. I never use it in SP (playing on lowish levels the happiness crunch doesn't really hit me hard, and it's medium upkeep), but especially if we play on Monarch I could see it being quite valueable. Plus it leads to other important stuff, like Longbowmen.

By the way, the first team vote for settings is in. Team Banana voted for Noble level (as I suspected), no barbs (ugh!) and city flipping off (ugh).

-Arrian