Rule Listing

[Ljube]

Obviously some people here are bent on stamping out all roleplay in this demo game. Golden Bear is only the first casualty of this merciless campaign of terror. I will not be the next casualty. Nothing that was posted here convinced me that "No team may have game-related discussions with a team they have not met in game" can be extended to "Teams may not post in-game matters in a public forum until all teams have contact with all other teams", because posting does not constitute inter-team discussion. Inter-team discussion is conducted through other channels.

Of course I'm against policing the game Klo. I overreacted with that statement. It was posted in the heat of discussion. I agree that no contact out of game until contact in game should be the rule for any team, but that must not include restrictive rules on posting.

[Chaos Theory]

Posting information in full view of another team does indeed constitute communicating with them, and two-way communication is all that is required for a discussion. Discussions do not need special channels to count.

As far as Golden Bear, have you talked to him? Asked him what happened? I can assure you, based solely on my observations of his posts, that nothing remotely deserving of the terms "merciless" and "terror" is going on.

[Kloreep]

I guess it all depends on your sense of "restrictive." Also how much you value the mystery of the early game. I'm not sure how much common ground we can find here, but please realize that just as you value public roleplaying, I value the lack of public information that leads to the darkness on my map actually being representative of me being in the dark.

Tell me, would you be okay with me posting a shot of the Mercenary map created so far?

Edit: I forgot to say it, but as Chaos Theory says I know of absolutely no pressure from mods or rules that led to GB's decision.

[Ljube]

Originally posted by Chaos Theory
Posting information in full view of another team does indeed constitute communicating with them, and two-way communication is all that is required for a discussion. Discussions do not need special channels to count.

Discussions need to be targeted to count. But obviously you are targeting all posting and every attempt at role-playing.

Two-way communication is not what you get from posting and threads. You get role-play, exchange of witty remarks and fun.

[Ljube]

Originally posted by Kloreep
Tell me, would you be okay with me posting a shot of the Mercenary map created so far?

That would be too extreme I think.


But I wouldn't mind if you reported on a war you were involved in, or on barbarian cities you took, or on the kind of special resources you had, the kind of buildings you built, the culture you spread, the great people you nurtured, etc...

[Chaos Theory]

I would say you could get away with all that as long as you obscured exactly what happened when. Give the cows you found a new name, come up with your own somewhat-inaccurate calendar, etc. Some information is so general that posting it communicates very little in-game information, if any.

For example, by 2000 BC, everyone can be assumed to have found some health resource (though possibly not hooked it up), fought or run from some animal or barbarian, spread some culture, etc. Posting that you conquered a city ten generations after settling the promised land by the time we hit 1 AD tells no one anything they wouldn't have assumed.

[Dave_Shack]

Perhaps a suggestion might be in order. First a disclaimer, this is speaking for myself and not for Sarantium, I'm not sure if the team would be interested in this.

How tight is Apolyton on subforums? One way to foster roleplay and give the game more of a real-time feeling is to create one subforum for each team to post public communication to all the teams it has contact with. Effectively this would be one public subforum per team, in addition to each team's private subforum. Make the subforum visible to that team and all teams who have contact. When a new team makes contact, they get access to the public information of the newly contacted team.

The traditional limitations can be maintained, such as not posting map information until the requisite tech is learned.

Posting in the team public forums should be limited to members of that team, otherwise if A knows B and C but B doesn't know C, it would be possible for B and C to exchange information illegally.

This idea has some historical basis as well. For example, do you think the Romans might have been eager to tell the Gauls that they kicked some Ethiopian butt, even if the Gauls had no idea who the Ethiopians were? When European explorers met the Chinese or Japanese, did they perhaps warn their new contact about other people they might meet up with?

Can this work for this game? I have no idea. Some of the regulars here seem to have a history, and public communication of this nature might be a bad idea. Reasonable but firm restrictions on actual contact might be necessary.

This has merely been commentary on a technical mechanism to allow this type of writing, if all the teams agree it should be allowed.

[E_T]

Originally posted by Ljube



C3CDG was a small pangea. This map is continents. It may take a while (possibly a year or two with the slow pace of the game) until posting restrictions are lifted. By then we may lose many players who are in this game for demo gaming, team-play, but also for some role-playing.

Deal with it, as we all must. It's something that we had agreed on and thereby, is something that we must follow.

And as for the EOD, that was a totally different game, so those rules, for that game applied then. This is now AND a different game.

The rules are different here....

E_T

[E_T]

Originally posted by Ljube
One more question snoopy. Are you behind Golden Bear's deletion of a good part of his chronicles? Are you the one who asked him to do it?

As I understand it, from the source of the original stories (i.e. Golden Bear), he was getting several PM's that there very abusive towards him , to the point that he was ready to leave 'poly and this game. I for one, (at least I hope that I have) helped him though some of his rough spots and he is still a part of this game/community. But it was a close run thing. And he could still tip away at any time.

I, for one, really enjoyed his stories, but as UnO had to deal with, with people not liking some of his Jungle Gazette's, the same seems to have carried over to GB. Personally (IMVHO), whoever has done so, is beyond contempt. But, as GB has (rightfully) kept those personages secret, I can only express my outrage and do whatever I can to0 help him (GB) dilute that pain. And I'll tell you now, it's not easy to do.

GB has had a lot of personal issues (and some of them are ongoing), that truth be told, he really doesn't need to take his time to even be here (they are that important, in RL). But you know, he is still here.

/me applaudes Golden Bear for his fortitude in this trying time of his life.

SO, I hope not to hear anything more, from him or anyone else on this issue, because RL s*cks sometimes and we who know, know what it can though at us, at any time.

/me does beleave in the perversity of the Universe, i.e. Fanagles (sp) laws....

E_T

[E_T]

Originally posted by ChrisiusMaximus
I said it earlier and Ill say it again this is nothing more than a blatant attempt to stifle the game for some of us, and I certainly never agreed to the closing down of roleplaying and I know my team did not either.

That is because, the majority of the teams (if not unanimous) decided that this is how we would play this game. The only "power" that Snoopy369 & Aeson have, is what we, as the players in this game, have given them. Nothing more and nothing less.

If you wanted your say in this, when it was being set up, then you should have made your viewpoint clear. Clear enough to have swayed the other team members to follow that thought and vote for a different set of rules.

BUT, that is not the case and this is what we have to deal with. So, deal with it.... as we all must, if we had wanted that or not. It's how it is.

Now, there are still some issues to work out, like the refugee issue, that we can all discuss and work out, to all of our satisfations. But, as there has been no discussion, on these possible issues, then that is considered to be an issue that is not important and the viewpoints that have been expressed, are the ones that will likely be used.

Please remember, we had a LOT of time, before the start of this game, to work out some of these issues. It's not my fault (nor anyone elses' who was here, through the whole wait) that you didn't feel that it was important enough for you to work on "getting the rules set right". If you didn't speak up, it was because (as we who were here had thought) considered to be because you were in agreement with them.

so, again, deal with it. As we all are.

E_T

[E_T]

Originally posted by Ljube
Snoopy defined the rules and in doing so needlessly limited the rights of people to post in the public forum.

No, we as the players, have defined those rules, for them (the Admins) to enforce. Nothing more and nothing less.

[EDIT]

It is most likely his attempt to prevent threads containing offensive language like some of the threads we had in C3CDG

And that is something that we have ALL agreed to keep from happening, in this game. Because of some of the "flamoyant" things that where said in the EOD, we as the players wanted a break from that. If you want proof, do some thread digging an you'll find out.

But suffice it to say, this is a different game, with different rules, that we all agreeded to, when we all agreeded to play this game.

Although, you are welcome to work at changing those rules. But as we are already playing, I really doubt that you will likely succeed. But then, "the Horse could always Sing"....
[/edit]

E_T

[E_T]

Originally posted by Chaos Theory
As far as Golden Bear, have you talked to him? Asked him what
happened? I can assure you, based solely on my observations of his posts, that nothing remotely deserving of the terms "merciless" and "terror" is going on.

I HAVE talked to him, quite a bit, and I can only say, that he has removed them, because of the objections of a few petty indivuduals.

I for one, would have wished that he had kept them up, as they are a source of fictional literature, that we all should all have no problem with reading.

But alas, there were some indivuduals (and as I had pointed out previously, He has kept to himself) who had an "issue" with the content of his Prose. It belittles us all, for that to have happened and even moreso, when GB has gone and removed them from us all. But, as he was their originator, he has the power to do as he feels with it.

I, personally, think that he should have kept them up and even added to them, but that isn't my perogative. All I can do is ask nicely.....

E_T

[Ljube]

Originally posted by Dave_Shack
This idea has some historical basis as well. For example, do you think the Romans might have been eager to tell the Gauls that they kicked some Ethiopian butt, even if the Gauls had no idea who the Ethiopians were? When European explorers met the Chinese or Japanese, did they perhaps warn their new contact about other people they might meet up with?

The answer to all the questions above is yes. Historically word spread between civilisations about the existence and the achievements of distant peoples.

[Ljube]

Originally posted by E_T
That is because, the majority of the teams (if not unanimous) decided that this is how we would play this game. The only "power" that Snoopy369 & Aeson have, is what we, as the players in this game, have given them. Nothing more and nothing less.

Three questions. What was the reason that swayed your team to vote for these restrictive rules? Are you aware that no meaningful posting can be made in the public forum for at least a year, possibly more? If yes, are you happy with that? If no, help me put an end to these restrictions and make this game more interesting for players and lurkers alike. Remember Golden Bear? He joined demo gaming because of the very active public forums full of different topics that contained much of the in-game information.

[proviisori]

Ljube: We agreed for most parts to play this according to game mechanics i.e. tech trading at alphabet and maps at paper. Why should we communicate with other civs when, in the game world , we would not have means to do so?

Originally posted by Ljube
The answer to all the questions above is yes. Historically word spread between civilisations about the existence and the achievements of distant peoples.

This happens already in the game. You get a message when someone builds a wonder or founds a religion. So there is no need for posting in-game stuff before the communication network (contacts) are world wide.