MP C4DG Chat Poll 3: GP Gifting

[binTravkin]

Well, I never implied that he was

the best final judge, (..) the best final arbitrater

And if something is marked 'personal opinion' I myself automatically assume it is not a judgement of sorts, just something along the lines 'my 2 cents'.

What appals me you immediately drop in and start bashing this personal opinion, showing little respect to the fact it's only personal and serves for informational purposes only.

I already regret the decision to post it here.

Hey, BT, you do understand that FP here was a paid consultant by Firaxis, paid in fact to lead the multiplayer testing

I fully understand this.

I browse the beta forum quite often, but I haven't yet seen a thread (forgive If I've missed it, though, then I'd like to have a link) where FP personally points out (or at least backs up person doing it) this thing to Soren and/or others.
So I wonder, why he's agitating about it so much here, and not in beta forum..

I also understand FP has learned the MP strategy without GP trading much better than most of us, and it seems to me that he is attacking the GP trading at least partially because he does not want the common and most successful strategies to be changed, altering (most probably lessening) the advantage he and his team might have.

[Krill]

[q=BinTravkin]And if something is marked 'personal opinion' I myself automatically assume it is not a judgement of sorts, just something along the lines 'my 2 cents'.

What appals me you immediately drop in and start bashing this personal opinion, showing little respect to the fact it's only personal and serves for informational purposes only.

I already regret the decision to post it here.[/q]

Opinion: A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof. Where did you say that it should be a final decision? No where, but then again, I never claimed that you said such a thing...

...I simply pointed out that it would be wise to not consider it as such.

No, where did I insult Soren? I have simply stated facts, which being honest are hard to refute.

So I wonder, why he's agitating about it so much here, and not in beta forum..

The reason FP is "Agitating" about it here is because an MP game is a matter of hours. I spend more than that playing a single turn in the C3C ISDG, and so it is a hell of a lot more important that we get the rules right here, due to the amount of time spent on this game. And as FP said, it ain't in most Ladder MP games, because of AW. And this is one of the reasons why AW is used...

And as for posting a link I would be in breach of a quite important agreement if I did so...so don't expect a link from me.

[binTravkin]

And as for posting a link I would be in breach of a quite important agreement if I did so...so don't expect a link from me.

PMing a link on the site we're talking about would also be?
I would like to see that discussion.

[Krill]

I bet you would...

[Kataphraktoi]

Sorens messsage is a clear indicator to me that GP trading was not a fluke that got left in the game, and therefore should not be banned arbitrarily because of that. Also, without games proving the overpowerdness of GP trading, i find the arguments of anti-GP traders made out of straw at best.

''No one is going to be convinced of the other side, so lets make a poll and vote. Otherwise this could go on forever.''

[binTravkin]

Sorens messsage is a clear indicator to me that GP trading was not a fluke that got left in the game, and therefore should not be banned arbitrarily because of that. Also, without games proving the overpowerdness of GP trading, i find the arguments of anti-GP traders made out of straw at best.

Exactly my thoughts.
If there was such thing as unintended GP trading, Soren would at least admit it (as he would be the first person to know it).
Making up facts is not a good way to argue..

[UnOrthOdOx]

FP First thank you for citing actual experience with this in game.

Second, I'm curious weather this is a subset of the locked alliances you refer to more than an indicative problem. Locked alliance games, all gold is shared between the locked teams, so assisting your partner to trigger a GA is a no brainer.

In this game here, however, I really have a hard time seeing any team sending GP to another team if that team has any sort of advantage on them. Who will help the larger team trigger their GA? It is suicide. No two teams are going to be equal, no matter how balanced the map. Are you going to help your neighbor who clearly makes more gold or production than you increase that lead?

Conversely, it allows two weaker teams a possible means to actually remain in the game in terms of both tech and production, if only for a brief time. In the situations of the '2 team continent' you describe, it allows that continent a means of keeping pace with a theoretical 4 team continent sharing techs.

I don't know. While I have a hard time seeing the leading team(s) finding trading partners, I see nothing but benefits possible for the rest of the teams since no permanent alliances has been decided on, I find the likelyhood of team blocks forming to be unlikely.

I'm actually convinced it SHOULD be allowed in any competitive games with no permanent alliances.

[binTravkin]

Team AC won't continue to respond to this thread. We made up our minds and our opinion won't change. This thread unnecessary spoils the fun-experience for everybody. Some of our members even consider to leave this demogame because of the strict atmosphere around here.

Team AC unanimuously wants to allow GP trading and to have fun with the game.

[Snoddasmannen]

Originally posted by binTravkin
Team AC unanimuously wants to allow GP trading

For the record, I voted banana

and to have fun with the game.

[Metaliturtle]

So I take it that Team AC thinks the game won't be fun unless they can trade GPs?

[Fried-Psitalon]

Yeah, I'm done here too. Let's vote.

That play with Soren was really cute, btw - maybe if we explain the entire situation, he might have a different response, but since my nose isn't so firmly wedged, I'm not going to bother a game designer over it. Soren designs the game; that doesn't mean he has extensive experience in every implication of what he designs does.... it was my job to discover those implications for MP, in fact. Will it RUIN the game if we play with GP trading? By no means. Will it shunt people into very particular strategies and lower the overall flexibility and range of play options? By all means.

Your ridiculous, baseless, and highly insulting remark as to why I might be arguing this point is actually factually quite wrong, by the way. I tend to play team games and 1v1s most of the time, so my experience is by far greater with GP-exchange strategies than blocked-trading strategies. So much so, in fact, that I have a very clear idea of exactly what this situation will create if GP trading is allowed. I really appreciate your carefully considered remarks on my character, though.

It shows quite a bit about yours.

[Golden Bear]

Sarantium has voted 8-5-1 on the topic of GP trading. As of 7 March, the Sarantines would vote no against this.

Golden Bear

[edit to update vote]

[GeoModder]

Originally posted by Metaliturtle
So I take it that Team AC thinks the game won't be fun unless they can trade GPs?

Nope, just that it takes away part of the possibilities. (o yes, personal opinion )

[Chaos Theory]

Are GAs that cost 5 GPs really that helpful? After all, those are 5 very good units that could be used in other ways, and you sacrifice them for just 8 turns of substantially improved production/economy/research. Even if it's a good deal, the high cost lowers the benefit of GP trading for extra GAs.

[Addled Platypus]

Team Banana is tied at the momement