Let Us Consider Carefully The Length of This Game

[Fried-Psitalon]

I'd just like to throw out a consideration here:

Just how long a game are we looking to play?

The dominant mood seems to be Ancient Era, Normal Speed, Terra Map.

That game will go at least 300 turns - particularly if people actually want to dilly-dally on the New World continent.

With seven teams, that could take a VERY long time to run through.

I for one would really rather see a game that might be finished in a year; in time for the expansion pack (guessing that'll be when we see it, and assuming there is one) and a new game. I mean, I'm just one guy here, but I guess you could say I have a little experience with MP.

Let's keep this in mind: Demogames take a LONG time. I'd like to see one come to a conclusion, and that's not going to happen if we play Ancient/Normal/Terra.

If you want something that isn't clear-type like Hub or Wheel, take Custom Continents-Small. Consider a Classical start - the only difference is that three religions will be randomly awarded, and we all get a worker. Consider "Quick" speed. I know some people don't care for that, but in MP, you have to be realisitic about game length.

I recognize that people want the "full civ experience" - and I do as well. Take care though that in your desire for the "Full civ experience" you don't rob yourself of the second half of that desire.

Ancient/Normal/Terra will not give you the full civ experience - it will only give you the first half.

Classical/Quick/Custom Continents is largely the same game, but we might actually get it done before 2008.

[Hot Mustard]

Another option would be to play the desired settings, but institute an aggressive turn schedule. 12 hour turnaround. Require that all teams provide passwords to the game administrators and CC them on save emails. If the admins have not received the next save after 13 hours, they have the authority to open the last save, end turn, and pass it along.

[PLATO]

I like the length of the normal speed. It gives plenty of time for the rise and fall and rerise of teams.

Is their any rule that says that there can't be two DG's at the same time? With an expansion pack, we could really muddle the diplomatic waters!! hehe

"What, I thought we were at war you scum! Oh...the new game. Yes, we will be your allie dear friend"

[Fried-Psitalon]

Well, I don't know about you, Plato, but I've already got two demogames I'm in - the C3C finals and this one. I don't have time to get involved in three, and I'd rather not sacrifice one for another.

Am I the only one here with a limited timeframe?

There's also a lot of issues with bad blood...and frankly, I don't want cross-game diplomacy. "Sure, we'll attack X in Y game if you attack A in B game." Sure, we can make rules against it, but even with time off between demogames, bad blood exists between teams. (GCA's quick and bloody fall in the C3C Semi-Final Demogame? Not an accident by any account.) I'd hate to think of what might happen if multiple games with the same teams were in progress.

Yuck.

[ChrisiusMaximus]

I think the ancient era is the best part of the civ experience and its that getting started aspect thats most fun, the modern era you can keep thank you.

[ForesterSOF]

Playing the entire timeline could help strengthen the Civ/team as mentined.

In order to keep things moving I would go for as short as posible for a turn time.

The problem is that with the team members spread all over the world 48 hours is needed.

Making Civs by timezone could help in team talking move faster but then we could get into real life rivalries between Countries.

It all boils down to buckel up for a longggg game.

[Arrian]

My $.02:

Classical start? Randomly awarded religions? No thank you, sir.

I understand what you're saying, Fried - these games can drag on for a long time.

I'm willing to consider quick game speed, although I've personally never tried it. I makes some sense for a demogame. I'm not at all sold on Terra (although I love the map script... I just don't know about it for this game). Continents may be better. We have 7 teams... to me that says standard map size. Maybe small with a lowered sea level could work.

To sum up: I want to preserve what I consider to be the essence of a civ game (ancient start is a must), but some concessions to speed up the game are probably good.

-Arrian

[Hot Mustard]

Originally posted by ForesterSOF
The problem is that with the team members spread all over the world 48 hours is needed.

I'm not convinced of this. 24 hrs maybe, but not 48. Advance turn planning must be expected.

[Arrian]

It depends on the turn. A ho-hum, press enter turn in the beginning is one thing. A turn during a large-scale industrial age war is entirely another. I think we might want to have some sort of recognition of that...

-Arrian

[DeepO]

The most important thing to me is to limit the time needed to play a single turn, especially later on. If you don't need a lot of time to play a turn, turns will be faster on their own.

I'm much in favour of somehow limiting the amount of land available. So high sea levels with larger maps, or smaller maps with Quick.

I don't like classical starts as I want to get the early era... I consider it the most fun (but have very little experience with later starts).

Further, I think another thing we've got to aim for is a setting to will lead to relatively early elimination of teams. Simply not providing enough land so people can resettle might be enough: if there wouldn't have been enough land in PTWDG I, neither Vox nor RP would have been relocated. Sad as it might seem, with 3 teams out, that wold have sped the game along nearly double as fast as it did now.

DeepO

[DeepO]

Oh, and any unforeseen circumstance, or special event warrants more time... everyone will accept that getting surprise-attacked means an extra few days to get plans adjusted. When nothing happens, teams should try to plan ahead, and play relatively fast.

Another thing: if turnplayers are fixed, a good turn order speeds things up too. When I played, there was always a full 24h before ND played after us: we share the same time slot, which means I generally forwarded them the save late at night. They couldn't play it the same day due to sleep/work... always a full 24h delay. OTOH, we nearly always played the game 12h after receiving it.

DeepO

[Fried-Psitalon]

If you want to avoid resettling, the very, very, VERY last map in the entire world you want is Terra.

[DeepO]

Something else might be a rule that automatically anihilates teams with no active cities, only settlers on boats.

DeepO

[Impaler[WrG]]

Is it possible for a PBEM game to go into Simultanious turn mod as you have over the internet. A few occasions ware we get all the turn players together at the same time to blast through 10 turns in a day would realy help speed up the game.

Perhaps this should be our mod of play, say once or twice a week getting everyone together for a limited number of turns. At 10 turns a week we could complete the game in ~8 months.

[Dominae]

I could go along with Quick speed - no real preference between that and Normal.

Ancient era start is, for me, non-negotiable.