What type of Game should this be?

[snoopy369]

Finally, with Civ4, you have more than one answer to this question

PBEM or PiTBoSs? There are advantages to both, or more correctly disadvantages to both...

PBEM

• (more) Stable - known quantity
• More flexible turn-timers
• Doesn't require a server or GameSpy ID

PiTBoSs

• Easier to enforce rules (no reloading, etc.)
• Easier to enforce turn time limits
• Possibility of simultaneous turns
• Possibility of quicker moving game - simul turns, and allowing pre-moves during wait time even in regular mode
• Ready turn availability via server - no need for email distro list

What is PiTBoSs?
PiTBoSs, or "Persistent Turn-Based Server", is a blend between full-blown Multiplayer mode and PBEM. It is currently in Beta mode, although it is fully compatible with Civ4 1.52 (essentially, the interface is in Beta). At the moment, it functions essentially as a non-graphic Civ4 that hosts MP games, but instead of turn timers being minutes, they're hours. I have played several PiTBoSs games to completion (or obvious conclusion, anyway) in MP-style; if all players are online at the same time, it is identical to MP play.

However, if you are not all online, or if you prefer to take your time, what it does is keep running as a persistent game, as long as the program is running on the host's computer. You can join the game at any time, enter your password, and voila - it's just like you had always been there. If the game is set to simultaneous turns, then you can take your turn at any time, irrespective of other players; conceivably, if all teams logged in during the first hour, the turn would be complete by that time, and the next turn began - regardless of what order the teams were available during.

The host can be one of the players, or not - that's irrelevant. It can be hosted through GameSpy, through DirectIP connection, or through a LAN. The game can be saved and loaded again, and generates autosaves every turn (or as requested in the Civ4.ini file on the host's machine).

Stability of PiTBoSs
Pitboss is still 'beta', and more than likely will gain major enhancements in the upcoming months (we hope). However, in contrast to Civ4 (game) patches, which often render previous versions' saves unplayable, enhancements to Pitboss likely will have no effect on games currently running (although Pitboss is patched alongside any whole-game patches, so any whole-game patch that had that effect would have that on Pitboss).

That said, there are certainly some bugs in Pitboss at the current stage. I've finished a few games in it, but if DGs can do anything, it's find bugs in things. It is possible that Firaxis will have worked out the bugs in Pitboss by the start of this game, and equally possible they won't have.

So the question to the house is:
* Do we want to play PBEM or PiTBoSs?
* Do we wait for PiTBoSs to be fully debugged, possibly some additional time beyond the planned period?
* How long are we willing to wait, if we want to wait?

[PJayTycy]

can you play on pitboss without the simultaneous turns? I've always considered simultaneous turns a very strange way to play a TBS : frantic action at the first few seconds of a turn (to attack that unit before it can retreat) and the last few seconds of a turn (to not give away your intentions).

I certainly prefer non-simultaneous turns. If this is possible on pitboss, I might consider voting for pitboss.

[GeoModder]

My vote would go to PBEM. Since we're playing in teams, chances that a whole team would endorse falseplay (reloading or other stuff) is way are close to non-existant. Same counts for the other "easy" things on Pitboss. With the amount of participants/team there's always someone who will notice the turn is around.

The biggest con on Pitboss (to me) is that it's still beta. No way of predicting if an upgrade will break the demogame, while with PBEM that chance is alot smaller.

[Maniac]

Is it possible to start the game on PitBoss, but when two civs meet each other or go to war, switch to PBEM? That way there's the advantage of speeding up the game at first, but not the disadvantage of having to attack frantically in the beginning of the turn when war erupts

[snoopy369]

You should be able to play sequential turns on Pitboss.

I don't think at the moment Pitboss games are convertable, but i'm not sure. It is in theory possible, I just think it doesn't quite work yet.

[Kloreep]

I like the idea of PitBoss, but unless it's out of beta when we start, I'm not sure we should be using it.

[Addled Platypus]

PBEM

[Hot Mustard]

Originally posted by Kloreep
I like the idea of PitBoss, but unless it's out of beta when we start, I'm not sure we should be using it.

[binTravkin]

I somehow like this new pitboss thing - it can free us from unneeded mess and waiting when someone sends the wrong turn or simply is not online.

[Krill]

One problem with PitBoss is that we would then have to shose between sequential turns, like we would have in a PBEM, and Simultaneous turns. I think that simul turns would be almost impossible to work with, from an MM and democractic point of view, and also wars would be very different to most people. Sequential turns is the same as in PBEm, only the game would be hosted on Gamespy all of the time, unless someone else would offer us their server for use. And the problem with gamespy are numerous. The majority of the problems with 1.52 patch seem to arise from Gamespy as well as problems in the patch.

I'll be honest and say that PBEM seems better, and to me, more stable with the new patch than PitBoss. And the really big problem with PitBoss is that the games that are hosted will only ever last a few weeks, so saves must be constantly uploaded, and whenever Gamespy is acting weird, so will our game...PBEM won't have these problems, so long as each team has several turn players.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Originally posted by Krill
The majority of the problems with 1.52 patch seem to arise from Gamespy ass

Hmmm....

Hard to tell if that's a typo or intentional...

[Paddy]

pbem works for me

[Cort Haus]

AIUI, a demo game is a team PBEM. We don't want to be reliant on 3rd party servers for years.

[Ennet]

Originally posted by PJayTycy
can you play on pitboss without the simultaneous turns? I've always considered simultaneous turns a very strange way to play a TBS : frantic action at the first few seconds of a turn (to attack that unit before it can retreat) and the last few seconds of a turn (to not give away your intentions).

I certainly prefer non-simultaneous turns. If this is possible on pitboss, I might consider voting for pitboss.

I havn't tried it so i wouldn't know but this is what i read somewhere: there is a rule in cIV when you are playing simultaneous turns there is a timer preventing you to move units you moved just before the end of the turn for a short lenght of time.
I dont know if this is correct or not, or exactly how this supposed rule is implented. Perhaps someone with a bit more insight than me can tell us.

[DeepO]

Originally posted by Maniac
Is it possible to start the game on PitBoss, but when two civs meet each other or go to war, switch to PBEM? That way there's the advantage of speeding up the game at first, but not the disadvantage of having to attack frantically in the beginning of the turn when war erupts

A good suggestion, altough I don't know if it's possible.

Otherwise, pure PBEM please. Or at least, no turn limits nor simultaneous games!

DeepO