Copy protection

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by alva
Seeing as you can play hotseat (involving several people), I don't why you couldn't install it on two machines and connect it.

Yes, I know it's not the same thing, to me, to the spirit of it all, it is.

Besides, seeing as many stores don't take a game back one the box hs been opened, and there's no other way to read the EULA...
(not that I've ever read one...brrr)

It's not the same thing, and it's not related to the EULA.

Hotseat is something the copyright holder (TTG/firaxis depending on how they worked out the rights) built into the game.

Installing it on a second machine is not something they specifically permitted (unless they DO specifically permit it, of course, but I doubt that).

These are standard COPYRIGHT laws, not EULA related. Honestly the EULA rarely limits the rights of the game purchaser beyond copyright, and when it does it tends to be overruled in court ... more often it extends special rights (such as allowing spawning, etc.) that are not copyright-permitted rights.

Y'all seem to not understand the point of copyright law. It is to protect the copyright HOLDER's rights, not to permit things. The "spirit" of things just doesn't come into it.

[vee4473]

Tim,

I would certainly contact Firaxis directly for the answer to this.

Minus an actual attempt by betas, you are going to get mere speculation here.

send them an email from their own website.

[bmcaffee]

While I agree that Copyright laws are designed to protect the holder of that intellectual property, however, the gray area in the law is where do consumer rights begin and IP laws end? I think it is difficult to answer this question for sure. I can assure you that no one would ever be prosecuted for playing a video that they have purchased on two televisions at the same time. In a similar vein, I can also assure you that no one would ever be prosecuted for installing a game they have legally purchased on two separate computers, even if they were playing that game at the same time. So, as Oliver Wendell Holmes stated, "The life of the law is not logic, it has been experience," meaning that law is only as good as it can be used to define and predict what we as mere mortals can and can't get away with. So, while we can have debates on the limits of IP law, the ultimate legal answer to this question is, you have zero chance of prosecution if you install a game you have legally purchased on two computers and play them at the same. This still leaves the more etherial question of whether the law allows this action at all, and I would argue that it worst it is an unresolved question and at best it is completly allowable.

Of course, like we learned in law school, the answer to any legal question usually begins with "Well, that depends . . ."

[snoopy369]

At worst, the law does not allow it, and at best it is unresolved. There is nothing in caselaw or actual law specifically providing for this; and no reasonable interpretation of copyright law would permit this usage. I'm not saying anyone would necessarily prosecute him; but it's quite obviously illegal in the US, although I couldn't say about UK law, though I believe the US largely follows UK copyright laws.

[Targonis]

The normal license agreement says that you are allowed to run the application/game on one computer at a time per purchased copy. This is why there are things like site licenses which can be purchased for many products.

[SpencerH]

All previous civ incarnations have only allowed 1 licence/copy. Although I hope this practice has changed, I doubt it.

[tgwpage]

Hi all, here's the reply from Firaxis...

...
You can play hot-seat with a single copy, but you will need an additional game disc for additional computers.
...

[Nailfoot]

I wonder if the game has been programmed to check CD keys, so that if two machines are using the same CD key they cannot compete on MP?

[Franklinnoble]

Bah. I've bought every Civ game ever made. I have no guilt over using a no-CD crack... simply because it is convenient for me.

Unfortunately, people get caught up in the finer points of what is "legal" rather than focusing on what is "right."

[LzPrst]

just thought of something, someone mentioned that he wanted to play civ4 with his 11 year old son.
what is the age limit for civ4? and whatever it is, IF the EULA is considered a contract it cant be considered binding if the purchaser is under the legal age for signing contracts. the company has thus allowed the underage purchaser to ignore the EULA if the games age limit provided by the company is below that of the age requirement for committing to binding contracts.

Also, at least in the judicial system I know of there is principle known as something similar to "reasonability", ie the law should not be interpreted in a way that contradicts the common notion of justice. a requirement from firaxis that you must buy several copies of the game for playing it with people within the same household might be considered to be against the common notion of "fair" so its not sure that firaxis' demand is valid in court...

all this, including piracy wouldnt be the problem it is if the gaming industry and vendors didnt inflate prices to the ridiculous levels they are at, at least in my country (norway). if the price of a computer game would be no higher than say 25€, 30$, 18£, 2 copies could be bought, no worries. as it is now, in norway, 2 copies will undoubtably cost more than a days salary for a person with minimum-low wages. which is why i bought mine from play.com 17.99£.

[Targonis]

Remember the standard rules on these things. You are allowed to make modifications for personal use, but you are not allowed to re-distribute any part of the code. Note that a no-cd crack that makes the modifications for you is still legal to give to others since no original game code is included.

So, if you copy a cracked .exe, that's not legal under the copyright on the game, but to copy a program that cracks it for you is allowed. Just make sure that any crack program doesn't add a virus to the code.

[Henrik]

Originally posted by LzPrst
Also, at least in the judicial system I know of there is principle known as something similar to "reasonability", ie the law should not be interpreted in a way that contradicts the common notion of justice. a requirement from firaxis that you must buy several copies of the game for playing it with people within the same household might be considered to be against the common notion of "fair" so its not sure that firaxis' demand is valid in court...

Atleast in Sweden the user agreement you click ok to when installing a new game or program is totaly meaningless. As that cannot be considered an agreement in Swedish law (partially becouse of the nature it's introduced and partially as the terms are indeed almost allways deemed "unreasonable"). I do think this is the same in many other nations.

[Atahualpa]

Originally posted by Henrik
Atleast in Sweden the user agreement you click ok to when installing a new game or program is totaly meaningless. As that cannot be considered an agreement in Swedish law (partially becouse of the nature it's introduced and partially as the terms are indeed almost allways deemed "unreasonable"). I do think this is the same in many other nations.

It's the same in Austria. The license agreement would have to be signed before the purchase or download in order to have a "legal effect".

[Nailfoot]

Originally posted by LzPrst
~SNIP~

all this, including piracy wouldnt be the problem it is if the gaming industry and vendors didnt inflate prices to the ridiculous levels they are at, at least in my country (norway). if the price of a computer game would be no higher than say 25€, 30$, 18£, 2 copies could be bought, no worries. as it is now, in norway, 2 copies will undoubtably cost more than a days salary for a person with minimum-low wages. which is why i bought mine from play.com 17.99£.

Actually, this is a catch 22. The prices of products such as games increase in part due to piracy. Piracy increases in part due to game prices. Of course, other factors affect each, such as inflation and budget overuns on the price issue.
Piracy is affected by people with the "Need to break it" for no other reason than just to have done it. I am completely SICK of all this piracy. I HATE that people get for free what I have paid a premium for BECAUSE they got it for free!!!

[Atahualpa]

Calm down, prices would not be much lower without piracy. Computer Gaming industry (Publishers) would just be making more money.

In fact, prices have lowered. IIRC the price for a single PC game has been quite constant over all the years and I can remember Civ2 then passed the counter for around 700 ATS (50€) and now games still cost €50.