Pitboss - Q's and A's

[Beta]

This thread will be for folks who are interested, but want to know more about the pitboss format.

snoopy369's excellent guide can be found here:



Check it out. All questions are welcome.

[Beta]

Quick and dirty explanation..

Here is my shorter summary of pitboss, and how it differs from pbem games, posted earlier in this forum.

In a pbem game, the save is played by one team and sent to the next. With a 24 hour turn rule, and say seven teams, it could take a max of 7 days to play one turn before the save came back around to you. If teams are playing quickly, lets say it will take 3-5 days. Occasionally a team has problems playing because of player absences, and then a single team may use up 2 or 3 days on its own, despite the turn rule. Various approaches have been used to get teams to stick to turn deadlines, including having an admin step in and play the turn if it goes past the 24 hour limit. The extra time does allow for all the strategizing and discussion and negotiating that goes on in a typical pbem game.

In a pitboss game, there is a turn timer, set at 24 or 36 or whatever hours. There are 2 to X number of teams. Each team has that set amout of team for one player on the team to log on and play the turn. If they don't play by the say, 24 hour time limit, then the AI automatically plays the turn based on build queues etc. If all teams play before the time limit, then the turn advances, and another 24 hours deadline is set. In this way, turns may actually take less than the set turn limit. The timer is very evident in a pitboss game - you see it clicking away in the upper right.

In this manner, a pitboss game can have many teams, and still stay on schedule. Whereas adding teams to a pbem game can really slow things down.

Sure, in a 3 player pitboss game, with all players on-line, you could really motor, so in that regard, a 12 player piboss game may be slower than a 3 player one, but, even in the 12 player/team game, the 24 or 36 hour turn deadline sticks.

In a pitboss demo game, I also suspect the team dynamics regarding strategizing and discussion will need be 'streamlined'. Teams will only have 24 hours to discuss stuff before the next turn, so teams will need to develop a good communication method and/or empower the turn player to play the turn.

Some other itesm of note - other players can log on at different times from other players on the same team, to check out the situation, and thus being able to add input to team discussions.

Also, more that one team can be logged on and playing at the same time, in which case, the game plays like a regular simulataneous multi-player game for the teams logged in.

[proviisori]

Your link does not work.
Did you push the [IMG] button and not the [URL] button?

[Beta]

I don't know. I used the "Forum code for linked thumbnail" from the upload screen.

I reloaded it anyways, and it works for me.

[proviisori]

hmm.. still doesn't work for me.

maybe you just have something against me?

[proviisori]

but seriously...

About the pitboss...

How about simultaneous turns?
That would speed things up considerably even with many teams.

There is the double-turn issue, but we could set a rule that no-one is allowed to use the double-turn in war or just before a war is about to brake up.

Double-turn is not a issue during peacetime, because if I understand correctly all "same turn completion" -things are randomized i.e. techs and wonders.

with simultaneous turns, the turn timer could be set to 96 or 72 hours.

[Krill]

A, I right in thinking then, that one team will move after another, so turn order will still exist, or will this be a simul turns game, like normal MP, where everyone can move at the same time?

[Beta]

Simultaneous turn play. No need to worry about logging in in any particular order.

As to the dreaded double move - I agree, it could be an issue during a war. We may need an in-game rile to apply.

(for those new to pitboss - a double move is where you are the last player/team to play a given turn. At that point, the pitboss rolls to the next turn. You are still logged into the game, so you become the first player/team to play the next turn. You can see the advantage this might provide at a critical point during a war. )

[Beta]

Originally posted by proviisori
but seriously...

About the pitboss...

How about simultaneous turns?
That would speed things up considerably even with many teams.

with simultaneous turns, the turn timer could be set to 96 or 72 hours.

All pitboss games I know are running simultaneous turns. And IMHO, a definite no no no to 96 or 72 hours. We might as well play pbem. 24 hours a turn - and let the teams adapt.

[Beta]

Originally posted by proviisori
hmm.. still doesn't work for me.

maybe you just have something against me?

Indeed! That's why we are co-chairing a team.

Still works for me. Can others access the file? It is a word file.

[proviisori]

Originally posted by Beta


All pitboss games I know are running simultaneous turns. And IMHO, a definite no no no to 96 or 72 hours. We might as well play pbem. 24 hours a turn - and let the teams adapt.

Sorry if I go "Con" on you now, but IMO 24 hours a turn is little bit too fast for a team Pitboss game with SIMULTANEOUS turns.
If there is a surprising important issue, the team should have at least 2-3 days to discuss (that would be 48 or 72 hours turn timer).

Even with 72 hours it will be considerably faster than normal PBEM, because the new turn will come in 3 days or less and not in week or more. And when there is no pressing issues to any of the teams, the turn will roll much much faster.

[Rhothaerill]

Agreed with Flamer...I mean Porvi...err...Provis...darnit...Provisoll...shoot. ..Asshat!!



p.s. that's an in-joke of what Flamer told us we could call him...just so I don't get banned for flaming Flamer.

[astrologix]

Originally posted by Beta
All pitboss games I know are running simultaneous turns. And IMHO, a definite no no no to 96 or 72 hours. We might as well play pbem. 24 hours a turn - and let the teams adapt.

I would like to discuss about two points :

- double move : in the 3 pitboss i'm playing, the double move thing is resolved with agreements between the belligerants. It works fine. The double move to begin a war is forbidden.

- Alliances, teams, research, etc. : in one of the pitboss we were 14 players from the beginning. Very quickly, alliances were formed and the rest of the game "decided". The techs exchanges are currently very fast paced and are conducting towards a "paranoid" end of the game, with possibly a premature global nuclear end. To avoid this effect, I proposed to play another pitboss game with a "crescendo multiplayer" style that I can resume like this : no alliances or diplomacy until the Communism/Fascism (C/F) techs, after this point alliances or permanent alliances can be signed, and research shared. Before that, only "interface permitted agreements" can be achieved (open borders, protection pacts, map exchanges, etc), and research agreements are forbbiden. No one can say what tech he's currently investigating. No plans between players before C/F. In other words : "single" style until Communism/Fascism and "multi" style after that point. I'm very optimistic on the succes of this way of play. I invite you to particularly discuss this point.

[Beta]

Originally posted by proviisori


Sorry if I go "Con" on you now, but IMO 24 hours a turn is little bit too fast for a team Pitboss game with SIMULTANEOUS turns.
If there is a surprising important issue, the team should have at least 2-3 days to discuss (that would be 48 or 72 hours turn timer).

Even with 72 hours it will be considerably faster than normal PBEM, because the new turn will come in 3 days or less and not in week or more. And when there is no pressing issues to any of the teams, the turn will roll much much faster.

If we set it at 72, each turn will be close to that. I am in some large multi-palyer pitboss games, and it only takes one player/team to drag out the clock.

What I see different in a 24 hour game is that teams won't have the week, or 72 hours to discuss "important' issues. The dynamic will be much faster - even frenzied - and that should make for a more interesting experience. ANH HELP IN FINISHING THE GAME WITHIN A YEAR.

Let's make this different!!

[ZargonX]

I'm with Beta on this one. With smaller teams, a 24 hour timeframe is not ridiculous. Maybe extend it out to 36 to give some global time-difference padding. But pushing it up beyond that and you'll see every turn taking the max amount and this thing dragging on forever.