State of Our Cities, Turn 144

[sooooo]

Having founded two cities this turn, and with drafting to start in 7-8 turns, it seems like a good time to take a look at our cities.

Let's start with the capital:



This city is ambling up to size 12, working cottages as it goes. Currently the odds of a scientist is 88%. We don't need extra GP points to speed up the scientist, but possibly we want to increase our chances of a scientist. Current production plan is to complete a knight and then it may begin the Taj Mahal, dependant on our C&D spying. I would like to see another cottage being layed down here in the medium-term. The city could occasionally be drafted from but with its poor food then not very often.

On to Pink Dot:



This city is currently on military duty. I do not think the maceman is needed here and I think we should change to a knight before the turn ends. The city currently lacks two needed buildings: a forge and a courthouse. I think the ideal plan is to not whip the (knight) and instead build it at max. production, since we have good tiles to grow into and work. I think we should wait for an islamic missionary to arrive before we start those two buildings. The city is not currently in need of worker attention. Draftable.

Here is China Beach:



It is completing the final work boat for Frozen Clams. Here I think is a good city to build another worker (4 turns). After that then we could get in a knight whip before we have to give horses to banana. For tile improvements, not a lot can beat the colossus coast we are currently working. I would say to hold off on tile improvements here until we get close to astronomy. A fine city to draft from.

Now on to Cape Town:



The jewel of our crown, getting 40 hpt when building units. I think the plan here should be to build knights for 10 turns until we have to give horses to banana, then switch to seige weapons. No tile improvements needed. We should not draft from this city.

Something Fishy:



This city had been suffering from a lack of tile improvements but that is being rectified by the construction of a cottage and a mine. The city has overflow from the lighthouse, and that is being put into a knight. I think after a knight it could afford to build a missionary for Pink Dot. We presumably want to grow this city but it can afford to be drafted from.

Green Acres:



Soon to be our highest production city . One forest is getting chopped from outside the BFC and that gets 36 hammers after multipliers. The other forests get 40 hammers. With 15 hammers per turn and 85/300 into the forge, we are on for a eta of 7 turns (T151). Coincidentally the same turn as we will get nationalism . Thus there is no need to borrow money from banana. Therefore we need to send a worker into the plains forest in 4 turns time, T148. Currently we have 4 workers in the area. I think we should have all 4 workers finish the plains farm in the north next turn (T145). The turn after (146) we can have 3 of them move to farm the grass farm inside the BFC and one to road the tile. Turn 147 the roading worker finishes the road and that allows one of the workers to reach the other grass tile and start the next farm while the other two finish the previous farm. Turn 148 One of the workers heads into the plains forest and the other two on the finished farm go to the southern farm and work on it (4/5 turns done on this farm). Turn 149 The plains forest starts to be chopped and the grass farm is finished. The remaining two workers head to the grass forest and start farming (not chopping), 2/8 worker turns done. Turn 150 the other worker joins in farming the same tile (5/8 worker turns). Turn 151 both of the forests are chopped and all of the farms are built! Globe is finished and nationalims arrives .

Here is Mellow Yellow:



We are currently building a cottage here. While we have colossus the city is currently OK. But once we get astronomy we will need cottages to fall back on. Probably one worker attending to this city is all we need at the moment. The city can be balanced between production and commerce by changing between coast and the plains forests. Current production needs are a barracks and a courthouse. I think we should time the barracks by tile-switching to come in at the time of nationalism. Then we can draft a maceman and double-whip a courthouse.

Bluebell Woods:



A pure commerce city. Poor production and food, but that is being handled by chopping all the buildings it needs. After a forge then it will chop a library and not have many other needs except for growing and making us money . We may even want a market here after the library. We have 1 worker in the area and he can keep up with the rate of growth. After finishing the 3 silks then it can get started with cottages.

Red Herring:



This is very much a filler-city. It can currently work the coastal tiles to take advantage of our colossus and be decent for drafting every 10 turns. I think we should build a mine on the tile we just chopped. Next build will probably be a forge. It has one worker attending to it and that is probably sufficient for its needs.

Saxon the Beach:



Currently it is in max-production mode to finish the Maoi Statues in 4 turns. After that it can switch to commerce/growth mode. Next builds should probably be a library a forge. We could do with chops here and can sacrifice one or both of our tundra forests. If we do build a worker from China Beach then this is where he should focus his attention.

And our first new city, frozen clams:



This city needs a granary and a lighthouse. Which is the best order to build them. T-Hawk? The worker, after finishing the final road to the city, should head onto the tundra hill and chop it. The chop could immediately finish a lighthouse (30 hammers) but not a granary (60). Maybe lighthouse first is best? An extremely draftable city.

Our second new city, Upper Burgundy:



This city is rather poor. It has no production to speak of and presumably we need to save those plains forests for lumbermills. I suppose the plan is to work the wines tile for now. Then when the borders pop we farm the rice and use our +4 food surplus to slave in our infrastructure. However, we could alternatively work the plains hill now to complete the granary quickly before the borders pop. It would only take 6 turns. Any opinions?

[Kodii]

Thanks for the post, sooooo!

Do we have concrete plans to build the Taj in A1? Perhaps we could get an operation thread started for that, although we don't really have to "plan" a whole lot.

[sooooo]

Good nudging Kodii. There is an alternate plan I posted in our Taj Mahal thread of building it at Bluebell Woods.

[timmy827]

Good idea sooooo. So good, I'm actually going to make real comments for once

@Old Burgundy - Working the plains hill gives a 12-turn granary not 6. Given 5 turns for border pop and 5 turns for farming (assuming one worker) it would not be far behind the rice getting improved.
Maybe I'm too ignorant of the long term, but I'm a compulsive granary-chopper and would consider it worth one of the plains forest in its fat cross. If the worker labor can be spared, the forest 2NE of the city would be good to chop (already roaded) if the rest of the team wants to save forests as sooooo suggests.

@Green Acres - actually the forest in the fat cross get 45 hammers after modifiers, and ETA on Globe is currently 6 turns exactly if the forests get chopped on schedule (84 now, 36+45+45 from the forests, 6*15 from natural production is exactly 300). Since this is potentially ahead of Nationalism ETA I would consider swapping one of the desert mine or plains forest to coast or grass forest, more food now will speed up our 3rd and subsequent drafts. In fact I think the best solution is to have the globe complete the turn after we start drafting; the city has enough happiness buffer to take one draft without the globe.

@Frozen Clams - I'm not sure if I want to do the whole number crunching thing, but here's a start. I believe the chop will come in 7 turns (2 more to road, one to move, think chop is 4 turns on tundra). 1st WB arrives in 3 turns, 2nd in 5. Note that in 5 turns we will only be at 14/22 food (3 turns at +2, 2 at +4) so it will be turn 7 before the 2nd clams are worked.

As a first degree approximation, lighthouse gives +1 food per pop while granary effectively doubles the surplus. So even though the lighthouse is half cost my instinct is granary first; we could whip it for one pop the turn after the chop arrives. However, then we spend some turns at size 1 effectively wasting the 2nd WB, so maybe it would be better to
a) do the same thing but hold off the whip until size 3, so we work both clams as much as possible
b) chop the lighthouse and double-whip granary at size 4.

I will consider running numbers on these three options later today, but don't have time right now.

[T-hawk]

Frozen Clams - As a first degree approximation, lighthouse gives +1 food per pop while granary effectively doubles the surplus. So even though the lighthouse is half cost my instinct is granary first; we could whip it for one pop the turn after the chop arrives. However, then we spend some turns at size 1 effectively wasting the 2nd WB, so maybe it would be better to
a) do the same thing but hold off the whip until size 3, so we work both clams as much as possible
b) chop the lighthouse and double-whip granary at size 4.

Nice analysis, I was about to post the same idea. The granary gives more food per hammer invested, but with the caveats of longer startup time (higher cost) and chunkiness (it doesn't help until one size after it's built.)

I'd probably do A, granary first and whip it at size 3. If we also want to whip the lighthouse, that can be done separately. A new city has plenty of happy headroom and doesn't need to care about optimizing for a double-whip.

Finally, we may need all available workmen for the Taj Mahal at Bluebell and don't have one to spare to chop here.

[sooooo]

@Old Burgundy - Working the plains hill gives a 12-turn granary not 6. Given 5 turns for border pop and 5 turns for farming (assuming one worker) it would not be far behind the rice getting improved.
Maybe I'm too ignorant of the long term, but I'm a compulsive granary-chopper and would consider it worth one of the plains forest in its fat cross. If the worker labor can be spared, the forest 2NE of the city would be good to chop (already roaded) if the rest of the team wants to save forests as sooooo suggests.

Chopping one of the forests should be doable. So are you suggesting we still work the plains mine while chopping the forest?

In fact I think the best solution is to have the globe complete the turn after we start drafting; the city has enough happiness buffer to take one draft without the globe.

That is a very good point.

One forest is getting chopped from outside the BFC and that gets 36 hammers after multipliers. The other forests get 40 hammers. With 15 hammers per turn and 85/300 into the forge, we are on for a eta of 7 turns (T151). Coincidentally the same turn as we will get nationalism . Thus there is no need to borrow money from banana. Therefore we need to send a worker into the plains forest in 4 turns time, T148. Currently we have 4 workers in the area. I think we should have all 4 workers finish the plains farm in the north next turn (T145). The turn after (146) we can have 3 of them move to farm the grass farm inside the BFC and one to road the tile. Turn 147 the roading worker finishes the road and that allows one of the workers to reach the other grass tile and start the next farm while the other two finish the previous farm. Turn 148 One of the workers heads into the plains forest and the other two on the finished farm go to the southern farm and work on it (4/5 turns done on this farm). Turn 149 The plains forest starts to be chopped and the grass farm is finished. The remaining two workers head to the grass forest and start farming (not chopping), 2/8 worker turns done. Turn 150 the other worker joins in farming the same tile (5/8 worker turns). Turn 151 both of the forests are chopped and all of the farms are built! Globe is finished and nationalims arrives .

I've realised that most of this is rubbish since one of the four workers is busy chopping and cannot help with the farming next turn. Will have to work out alternate plan, but it should still be OK.

[timmy827]

Old burgundy - right, work the plains hill and chop one forest, switch to wines after granary done, and then of course to rice when it's improved.

I did a quick test of the three frozen clams approaches, the narrow winner was the first plan (Granary first, 1-pop whip after the chop comes in, whip lighthouse once at size 3).

Both of these assume we have workers to spare for the chop, which I'm not sure about.

[Dreylin]

A quick thought regarding the long game: we need to get three Steles built in our prospective Culture cities before we get to Astronomy.

I'm guessing the three would be A1, Pink Dot & Green Acres (as Artist pump).

[T-hawk]

Unfortunately, that doesn't help. The Stele +25% bonus goes obsolete. Only the +1 base culture doesn't, but that's far too tiny to be worth the hammers.

[Dreylin]

Ah, I didn't realise that was the case.