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State of the Empire: Turn 115

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  • State of the Empire: Turn 115

    State of the Empire: Turn 115

    Well what do you know, we've made it all the way into the AD years now. Only took us about nine months to get there, heh. This is a summation of what's taken place in the past 10 turns, and a look ahead in some respects to future plans. Let's get started!

    Headline News

    These were a good ten turns overall for Realms Beyond, as we made drastic strides in terms of our economy and improved our diplomatic standing by meeting Banana. Some specific details:

    - Team RB successfully completed the Great Library on T106, thanks to weeks of planning ahead of time!

    - Team RB researched Monarchy (T108) and Mathematics (T112), traded for Civil Service with PAL (T112) and Currency with Imperio (T114), thus allowing us to enter Hereditary Rule and Bureaucracy civics. This greatly improved our economy, and allowed our happiness-starved cities to begin growing once again.

    - Other tech trades of interest not involving Team RB included:

    T106: Banana pops Machinery tech from their Great Engineer, eventually sending it to Templars (in exchange for earlier Metal Casting) and PAL (Code of Laws and later Civil Service)
    T109: Imperio researches Currency and trades it to PAL for Civil Service (and Construction, earlier)

    As you can see, we were one of the most active teams in this span, unlike the previous ten-turn period (T96-105) where we got locked out of Templars' brokering spree of Metal Casting. Templars and Rabbits were the losers in this sequence, not having much of interest to trade.

    - Team RB captured the barb city of Saxon on T111 (city #8), after a long period of waiting. Other city foundings/capturings included:

    T110: Rabbits settled Mountain Hutch (city #3)
    T111: Templars settled Acre (city #5)
    T112: Rabbits capture Phrygia (city #4)
    T114: PAL razes Mountain Hutch

    For whatever reason, teams don't seem to be building a lot of settlers right now. PAL/Imperio are on war footings, Rabbits are out of the game, and Templars/Banana are squeezed for land. One of our goals should include making sure we found at least one new city before the next ten turns pass.

    - In terms of military, we built Heroic Epic in Cape Town on T109. Imperio responded by sabotaging our copper resource on T112, which our workers are in the process of reconnecting. We traded for iron with Banana on T114 to make up this temporary setback.

    - We have Hanging Gardens in progress at Pink Dot, prepared to complete on T118 unless another team comes out of the blue and finishes it first.

    Current Overview

    North:


    South:


    Next post will cover our individual cities. Please ignore the three city pics attached to this post; remember, I can only attach five to each post, and we have eight cities now!
    Attached Files

  • #2
    Continuing with the rundown of domestic stuff...

    General

    Current Turn:
    Turn 115 - 1 AD
    Turn Timer expires at approx (UTC)

    Active Turn Player:
    Sullla

    Tech:
    Horseback Riding (1t)
    50% research (89 [111] beakers/turn) @ +20gpt
    256/357 beakers overall

    Gold
    38g in treasury

    Cities

    Airstrip One [size 8] [guarded by Xena]:
    Spearman (2t), National Epic (15t)
    Infrastructure: Palace, Granary, Barracks, Library, Great Library
    Emphasizing food and commerce



    Comments: Airstrip One is maturing extremely well as a commerce powerhouse. We've grown up to size 8, which is remarkable since we were only size 5 here as recently as ten turns ago! Hopefully soon to be size 9 via Hanging Gardens, hehe. Anyway, we're working five grassland river cottages, plus the wines tile. We still have room for three more grassland river cottages, and will definitely add them once our workers have some spare time. For the moment, we can work the already-improved hill tiles.

    Finishing the spearman, then adding National Epic is the current plan of development. If we get Hanging Gardens and a free extra pop point, National Epic will be done in about ten turns.


    Pink Dot [size 5] [guarded by Britney's Spears and Adria and Athena]:
    Hanging Gardens (7t) [3t]
    Infrastructure: Barracks, Granary
    Mission "Hanging Gardens" in progress



    Comments: Hanging Gardens are progressing quite nicely, due in 3t. Afterwards, the plan is to build some cottages on the grassland river tiles, making this into a true production/commerce hybrid. In terms of builds, we're probably going to pump out a couple of horse archers to defend against Imperio next. Maybe a settler after that (?) in the longer term.

    China Beach [size 6] [guarded by Ms Piggy]:
    Worker (10t) to be whipped to completion sooner
    Infrastructure: Granary, Library, Barracks
    Great Scientist 96/100, +6 GPP/turn, due in 1t



    Comments: Great Scientist due next turn! Afterwards, current plan is to whip the worker to completion and then let the overflow go into something else. My tentative vote is for lighthouse, if only for the +1 food/turn from clams and because we get uber-cheap lighthouses, but there are certainly other options. Because of the high food at China Beach and relatively poor tiles, we will probably continue to employ some Scientist specialists here.

    Cape Town [size 4] [guarded by Diana and Fyre Errow and Gillian and Jamie Lynn's Spears and Hannah and Christina and Aphrodite and Demeter]:
    City Walls (1t)
    Infrastructure: Barracks, Heroic Epic



    Comments: Cape Town, the city we expect to be under siege shortly. Not too much to say here; Cape Town has Heroic Epic and will be cranking units for the forseeable future. The forest SE of the city will be chopped next turn, and the copper will be reconnected on T118.

    Something Fishy [size 5] [guarded by Svava]:
    Courthouse (4t)
    Infrastructure: Granary, Library
    Planning to whip courthouse on the final turn, with overflow going into settler



    Comments: A fine commerce city, developing nicely in the extreme south. The current plan is to whip this courthouse on the final turn (4t), letting the city immediately regrow to size 5 and sending 25 or so shields of overflow into a settler. Once we finish chopping forests at Pink Dot, workers will move back down here and continue clearing jungle/adding grassland cottages. Will be even stronger if we can get the dyes connected sometime soon.

    Green Acres [size 3] [guarded by Robyn Hood]:
    Lighthouse (10t) [anger duration 3t]
    Infrastructure: Granary, Library
    Planning to whip lighthouse at some point, with overflow going into worker



    Comments: Green has some very poor desert tiles, but the presence of clams and wines make it worthwhile. I believe that this current turn is the optimum time to whip the city's lighthouse, with Green immediately regrowing to size 3 and then building worker while employing the 2 clams + wines tiles. (Worker in 6t at that rate.) Someone please check the whipping math to make sure I'm right about this!

    Mellow Yellow [size 2] [guarded by Hera]:
    Granary (13t)
    Infrastructure: none
    Planning to whip this turn, I think (?)



    Comments: Mellow has better long-term land than Green, but it's been slower getting started due to lack of worker attention. I believe T-Hawk said that the current turn (T115) was the optimum time to whip the granary - again, is that correct? Anyone want to check on that?

    Saxon the Beach [size 1] [guarded by Betty Hur]:
    Moai Statues (62t)
    Infrastructure: none



    Comments: Just getting started here, but the presence of stone is huge for our civ. We should be able to get a worker up here in ~5 turns, to work on connecting those deer and then mining the grassland hills. Moai will turn this from a frozen wasteland into a solid contributer.

    For purposes of completeness, here is our army composition:

    Non-Combat Units

    Scout [Sharon]:
    Scouting out the eastern continent

    Worker [Winston]:
    Connecting wines at Green Acres (done!)

    Worker [Bernard]:
    Connecting wines at Green Acres
    Roading (2t)

    Worker [O'Brien]:
    Chopping defensive cover forest at Cape Town, then reconnect copper
    Chopping (3t)

    Worker [Helmholtz]:
    Chopping defensive cover forest at Cape Town, then reconnect copper
    Move to tile (done!)

    Worker [Parsons]:
    Chop forests as part of Operation Hanging Gardens
    Chopping (done!)

    Worker [Syme]:
    Chop forests as part of Operation Hanging Gardens
    Chopping (3t)

    Worker [John the Savage]:
    Chop forests as part of Operation Hanging Gardens
    Moving to tile (done!)

    Military Units

    Galley [RBS Discovery]:
    Patrolling the Channel

    Axeman [Gillian]:
    Guarding Cape Town (for now)
    Heading to Twin Peaks eventually

    Axeman [Adria]:
    Guard Pink Dot

    Spearman [Christina]:
    Guard Cape Town

    Spearman [Hannah]:
    Guard Cape Town

    Spearman [Jamie Lynn's Spears]:
    Guarding Cape Town (for now)
    Heading to Twin Peaks eventually

    Spearman [Britney's Spears]:
    Guard workers at Pink Dot to keep Templar chariot honest

    Chariot [Betty Hur]:
    Resting and healing up in Saxon the Beach
    10XP - our most heroic unit!

    Chariot [Lady Godiva]:
    Moving east to get intel on Imperio/Templar cities

    Archer [Ms Piggy]:
    Guard China Beach

    Archer [Diana]:
    Guard Cape Town

    Archer [Billy Jean Tell]:
    Exploring Imperio territory

    Archer [Robyn Hood]:
    Guard Green Acres

    Archer [Svava]:
    Guard Something Fishy

    Archer [Fyre Errow]:
    Guarding Cape Town (for now)
    Heading to Twin Peaks eventually

    Archer [Hera]:
    Guard Mellow Yellow

    Archer [Athena]:
    Guard Pink Dot

    Archer [Aphrodite]:
    Guard Cape Town

    Archer [Demeter]:
    Guard Cape Town

    Warrior [Xena]:
    Guard Airstrip One

    Warrior [Jennifer]:
    Exploring the eastern continent

    On to some C&D stuff...
    Attached Files

    Comment


    • #3
      The return of the much-beloved Foreign stats section! Keep in mind that these numbers are only estimates, due to the difficulty of measuring the bar graphs. (Aside from the Soldier count, which should be very accurate due to our ability to track city builds.) First, the GNP info:



      From left to right, the civs are Realms Beyond, Templars, Imperio, PAL, Rabbits, Banana. I tried to color-match as much as possible, although it's tough because we have three different "yellow" civs in this game.

      The story in the GNP category is the growth of Realms Beyond and PAL, along with the relative decline of Imperio. I say "relative" because Imperio is still making progress here, just not nearly to the same degree of dominance that they had earlier. As recently as 20 turns ago, Imperio stood head and shoulders above everyone else in this field. Then PAL built the Great Lighthouse on T99, which took their GNP from the 60/80 range into the 100/150 range (min versus max science). Since then, PAL has only increased their economic strength, and last turn they recorded the first 200+ turn of the game thus far.

      But we've been making immense strides in this area as well! As recently as ten turns ago, we were alternating between 60/90 (min/max science) while slowing finishing up research on Monarchy. The Great Library brought us up to something like 100/140, while Bureaucracy civic and Currency's extra trade routes have taken up to ~180 at break-even science. (We can push up to 200 at max right now.) With an Academy in Airstrip One, we not only achieve parity with PAL and Imperio, we may actually become the tech LEADER in terms of pure beakers! It's been quite a turnaround.

      Compare to Templars, who have made essentially zero progress with their economy in the past 20 turns. (They still have no libraries at all!) The only major remaining question is where Banana falls on this scale. My guess is something in the 80-100 range, but I confess I really have no idea. In GNP, there are three competing teams, and then three distant followers, getting further behind as we progress further. (Of course, tech trading has an enormous impact that often outshines pure GNP, so take all this with a grain of salt!)



      Food/Production numbers for each team, with Food on the left and Production on the right. For a quick measure of non-commercial economic strength, add together the two numbers like so:

      PAL: 173
      Imperio: 149
      RB: 144
      Templars: 87
      Rabbits: 51

      Once again there is a clear division between the three front-running teams and the distant trailers. PAL has stubbornly maintained their population edge, although by percentage it's less of a gap than earlier. We are neck and neck with Imperio in the Food/Production categories right now, with them having fewer/larger cities compared to us. But we've only had the happiness to grow our cities for a mere 7 turns, so expect us to open up a lead in this category (if we can avoid losing Cape Town!) Hanging Gardens would mean a MAJOR boost in these stats. PAL building Hanging Gardens would be really bad for us. Knock on wood that we don't see that happen.



      And the all-important Soldier count listings. Let's look at this on a civ-by-civ basis...

      Templars: Aside from trading for Machinery on T108 (+8k), Templars have gained exactly 8k Soldier points in the past ten turns. Archer (T107), archer (T111), and two pop increases worth 1k each. (One of these may have been a barracks at Constantinople, which we can't see.) They've added no units in the past four turns. This is emphatically not a team gearing up for war, unless they have the most diabolical secret plan of all time.

      Imperio: Their power has been steadily creeping up over the past dozen or so turns, albeit we have to keep in mind that lots of their "Soldier" numbers have been coming from technologies like HBR, MC, and Construction. I am pretty sure I have a completely accurate count of Imperio's entire military, thanks to our ability to watch their builds, so see below for a full tally.

      PAL: They steadily whipped, chopped, and upgraded their units to get a substantial army. PAL seems to have peaked at a little over 200k rating for the moment, as they laid off on building more military for the past four turns. Hopefully they'll prove to be wrong and have to add more to finish Rabbits. I really don't know exactly what units PAL has, their whipping and lack of city info making for a lot of guesstimation. It looked like their main stack had about 5 maces and a scattering of cats/axes/war chariots.

      Rabbits: Umm, they're losing to PAL? Not a whole lot to say here.

      Banana: According to the Demographics, Banana is the lowest in the world in Power, at a little over 100k. Yes, they really don't seem to think that PAL will turn on them eventually, the poor guys...

      Soldier Tally (Accurate up to last turn, T114)

      Templars

      Known Units

      Squire Herc (Quechua)
      Combat I/II/III promotions
      Current location: North of Airstrip One

      Squire Aidun (Quechua)
      Combat I promotion
      Current location: Imperio territory near Chichen Itza

      Don Q Wittlich (Axeman)
      Woodsman I promotion
      Last seen: Inside Jericho

      Lance Wilson (Spearman)
      Combat I/Melee promotions
      Last seen: Inside Jericho

      Spearman (forgot to write down name)
      Combat I promotion
      Last seen: moving to Jericho

      Current Soldier Count: 138k
      Total Known Soldier Count: 18k
      Soldier Points from Tech: 58k
      Soldier Points from Population: 9k
      Soldier Points from Buildings: 5k

      Missing Soldier Count: 48k
      Surmised/Estimated Units (from C&D)
      3 axes (6k each = 18k)
      3 chariot (12k)
      4 archers (3k each = 12k)
      4 quechus (1 at 2k and 3 at 1k pre-patch = 6k)

      Guesstimated Total Military
      6 quechuas (2 known)
      4 axes (1 known)
      2 spearmen (both known)
      3 chariots (0 known)
      4 archers (0 known)

      Imperio

      Tarzan (Warrior)
      Woodsman I/II promotions
      Currently exploring our territory near Airstrip One

      Uzpatac (Warrior)
      no promotions
      Fortified in Uxmal

      Chariot (Cuauhtli)
      no promotions
      Last seen in Mutal

      Chariot (Omecatl)
      no promotions
      Last seen outside Chichen Itza

      Mutalac (Holkan)
      (1 available)
      Fortified in Mutal

      Lakan (Holkan)
      no promotions
      Fortified in Lakamha

      Chichen (Holkan)
      no promotions
      Fortified in Chichen Itza

      Longbowman
      (1 available)
      Fortified in Mutal

      Longbowman
      (1 available)
      Fortified in Mutal

      Longbowman
      (1 available)
      Fortified between Mutal and Lakamha

      War Elephant
      (1 available)
      Fortified in Mutal

      Known to have at least 3 workers

      Current Soldier Count: 155k
      Total Known Soldier Count: 50k
      Soldier Points from Tech: 64k
      Soldier Points from Population: 16k
      Soldier Points from Buildings: 12k

      Missing Soldier Count: 13k
      Surmised/Estimated Units (from C&D)
      1 warrior (2k)
      1 longbow (6k)
      1 catapult (5k)

      Guesstimated Total Military
      3 warriors (2 known)
      3 holkans (all known)
      2 chariot (all known)
      4 longbow (3 known)
      1 war elephant (known)
      1 catapult (unknown)

      PAL

      Known Units

      Zhuge Liang (Great General Maceman)
      Combat I/Melee/Morale (+1 movement)
      Current location: Main PAL stack

      Maceman
      Combat I
      Current location: Main PAL stack

      Maceman
      City Raider I
      Current location: Main PAL stack

      Maceman
      no promotions
      Current location: Main PAL stack

      Maceman
      no promotions
      Current location: Main PAL stack

      Catapult
      no promotions
      Current location: Main PAL stack

      Catapult
      Barrage I
      Near Valley Hutch ruints

      Dubya Cee (War Chariot)
      Combat I promotion
      Current location: Main PAL stack

      War Chariot
      Combat I/Melee
      Fortified in Alexandria

      War Chariot
      no promotions
      Near Valley Hutch ruints

      War Chariot
      no promotions
      Near Valley Hutch ruints

      Axeman
      no promotions
      Current location: Main PAL stack

      Axeman
      no promotions
      Current location: Main PAL stack

      Pokey (Spearman)
      no promotions
      Current location: Main PAL stack

      Known to have at least 3 workers (Nails, Uncle Grandfather, one unnamed)

      Current Soldier Count: 205k
      Total Known Soldier Count: 87k
      Soldier Points from Tech: 62k
      Soldier Points from Population: 18k
      Soldier Points from Buildings: ???

      Missing Soldier Count: 38k (including buildings)
      Known units:
      5 maces
      2 cats
      4 war chariot
      2 axes
      1 spearman

      Guessing something like 9k buildings (3 barracks), 5 archers, 2 more axes (???)

      Rabbits

      Known Units

      Caerbannog (Great General Chariot)
      Combat I/II, Formation (+25% anti-horse), Morale (+1 movement)
      Current location: NE of Heliopolis

      Backyard Watcher (Axeman)
      Combat I/II promotions
      Current location: NW of Rabbits territory

      Subutal (Axeman)
      Combat I/II promotion
      Current location: NE of Heliopolis

      Axeman
      no promotions
      Current location: NE of Heliopolis

      Axeman
      no promotions
      Current location: NE of Heliopolis

      Horse Gutter (Spearman)
      Combat I promotion
      Current location: NE of Heliopolis

      Forest Gum (Spearman)
      Woodsman I promotion
      Current location: NE of Heliopolis

      Sneaky Fangs (Spearman)
      Combat I/II promotions
      Current location: NE of Heliopolis

      Archer
      City Garrison I/Drill I
      Current location: fortified in Digger's Burrow

      Archer
      City Garrison I/Drill I
      Current location: fortified in Caerbannog

      Current Soldier Count: 117k
      Total Known Soldier Count: 46k
      Soldier Points from Tech: 36k
      Soldier Points from Population: 4k
      Soldier Points from Buildings: 16k

      Missing Soldier Count: 15k
      Surmised/Estimated Units (from C&D)
      2 axeman (12k)
      1 archer (3k)

      Guesstimated Total Military
      1 chariot (known)
      6 axes (4 known)
      3 spearmen (all known)
      3 archers (2 known)

      * * * * *

      So right now, Imperio looks like they can currently field an army of:

      3 warriors (2 known)
      3 holkans (all known)
      2 chariot (all known)
      4 longbow (3 known)
      1 war elephant (known)
      1 catapult (unknown)

      Removing the units on garrison duty, we're looking at something like 2 chariots, 1-2 longbows, 1 war elephant, and 1 catapult. They will obviously need a lot more than that if they expect to capture any of our cities! I will keep updating these numbers each turn in the Foreign Military thread, so that we can keep an eye on how to counter Imperio. sunrise can tell us the best unit mixture to build to counter each enemy stack.

      Imperio numbers are the most accurate, Templars should be pretty close although I'm sure there are some errors in there. Rabbits should be quite accurate as well, though I'll admit I've been a little lazier with them lately because I'm sure they won't last much longer. PAL is accurate for the units we have, just there's an impenatrable fog around about 40k of their Soldier points which could be anything. We more or less know the contents of their Stack of Doom, however, and that's what matters most.

      That wraps this up. I hope it was informative for our regulars and our lurkers.
      Attached Files

      Comment


      • #4
        Very thorough. Thanks Sullla!

        Comment


        • #5
          Thank you very much for this thorough overview. It gives a better feel for how the game is going than I could get from logging in.

          Just for comparison, could you also include our own unit count next to Imperio's, and maybe a breakdown into garrison units and mobile defenders in the north/south. (I don't mean individual units here, because that would be information overload, but just "what kind of stack we could deploy against Imperio's supposed attack force".)

          Comment


          • #6
            Total RB forces:

            1 galley
            2 axemen
            4 spearmen
            2 chariots
            10 archers
            2 warriors

            Removing the garrisons of backline cities, we get:

            1 galley
            2 axes
            4 spears
            1 chariot
            6 archers

            Breakdown of these forces gives us:

            Free roaming: 1 galley, 1 archer, 1 chariot
            Pink Dot: 1 axe, 1 spear, 1 archer
            Cape Town: 1 axe, 3 spears, 4 archers

            Hope that helps. Our unit makeup is extremely defensive at the moment (heavy on spears and archers), but we'll very shortly be able to start creating some more aggressive ones (e.g. horse archers/cats/elephants).

            Comment


            • #7
              Thanks.

              The comparison of Cape Town garrison with Imperio's available forces makes me feel much safer. Should we send a couple more scouts into Imperio's territory to find their SoD once they start assembling it?

              Comment


              • #8
                Yes, Mellow Yellow should whip this turn, T115. I'm not sure what it wants to build next. I guess library or lighthouse, although it'll be quite a while before this city is useful at all.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Sulla, thanks a lot for the effort of writing this excellent overview! This helps tremendously in getting a feel for the game.

                  Now that I know about Imperio's forces, I really wonder what they were smoking when sabotaging our copper... but maybe they plan to destroy it again as soon as we've reconnect it, to try to deny us metal completely.

                  -Kylearan

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thanks for the overview. As a more involved player, the ideas for the city development are of particular interest. I agree with all ideas, except for scientists at China Beach which I don't feel would be a good option. I think we should improve more tiles (grasslands and grass hill), but if that's not possible in the short term, then we should try to come up with ideas to get the most out of the city at size 4-6.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Here is a suggestion for China Beach (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=301733). I haven't run the numbers but it might be a possibility.
                      Quote: "All Happiness is the release of internal pressure"
                      Visit my Civ IV web site for information on mods that I am involved with or use and other Civ IV tools
                      woo hoo! My wife publishes her first book. Buy it now in paperback format at lulu and help me retire so I can write more BUG mod code.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Ooh, I like that, China Beach as a Globe Theater draft city. But do the numbers hold up? The minimum size for drafting is size 6, so each turn the city wants to grow to 7 and draft itself back to 6. That growth requires 16 food. CB's max surplus food pre Biology is 3 (clams) + 2 (farmed fp) + 1 (cow) + 1 (farmed grass) +2 (city center) = 9 and that's all. It could manage barely one draft every two turns.

                        Pink is somewhat better; it can get +11 food, although that comes at the opportunity cost of lots of good hill tiles.

                        I think Green Acres is the best candidate for a Globe Theater drafter. It can also make +11 food (+3 clams, +3 clams, +3 three farmed grasslands, +2 city center), but that's the limit of its useful workable tiles.
                        Last edited by T-hawk; March 1, 2009, 12:36.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          First guesstimate for Ruff's suggestion;

                          We would want to run this between sizes 5&6, so need 15f for growth.

                          With the current tiles, a lighthouse and adding a grass farm, we would be at +7food.

                          Switching from the Plains cottage to a plains farm (or coast) would get us to +8f and a draft every other turn.

                          Actually, I think that Green Acres might be a better fit; working the current tile & two Grass farms woulkd give us a +10f surplus and allow us to draft every 2 of 3 turns.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Ninja'd!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              And Dreylin is right on the sizes (draft on a 5-6 cycle, not 6-7), but I'm right on the food (Green Acres can still make +11 at size 5, although by staying off the wines.)

                              Comment

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