Operation: "Hanging Gardens"

[regoarrarr]

Plan 7 (HG T118 trying to optimize Pink Dot)
5 chops, 1 pop whip

T111 (THIS TURN): John cancels his cottaging

T112: (anarchy) Syme moves SE-NE-NE to yellow and starts chopping (3t), Parsons moves N-NW-NE to yellow and also chops, John chopping on red (3t)

T113: Parsons chops (done), John chops (2t), Syme is done, and move NE-E and chops purple, and cancels.. Pink Dot to size 6, work grass forest (2-1-0)

T114: John's chop comes in. Syme moves 47 on to the grass forested hill (or really any forest he can reach). Parsons moves 3 (or again whichever forest we want chopped). Single whip the aqueduct. Work rice cow and 3 mines.

T115: John N to purple. Syme chops (3t). Parson chops (3t)

T116: Everyone chops (2t) - remember purple had 1 turn of chop on T113 so John only needs 2 turns

T117: Everyone chops (done) - PD swaps 2 mines to 2 grass forests

T118: HG built - no overflow, PD at size 6 with 23/32 (after HG raises it one pop).

Next post will be trying to compare the various HG plans so we can decide which one we want.

[regoarrarr]

Plan 3: HG T119, PD size 7 10/34 (grow in 5-6 @ 4-5fpt), 3 overflow. 3 workers, 5 chops.

Plan 4: HG T118, PD size 5 18/30 (grow in 3), 0 overflow, 3 workers, 4 chops, 2-pop whip

Plan 5: HG T117, PD size 4 24/28 (grow in 1 turn), 0 overflow. 3 workers, 4 chops, 3-pop whip

Plan 6: HG T117, PD size 5 13/30 (grow in 4 @ 4-5fpt), 25 overflow. 4 workers, 5 chops, 3-pop whip

Plan 7: HG T118, PD size 6 23/32 (grow in 2 @ 4-5fpt), 0 overflow. 3 workers, 5 chops, 1-pop whip

Plan 8: HG T119, PD size 8 19/36 (grow in 3-4 @ 4-5fpt), 0 overflow, 4 workers, 6 chops. This gets PD up to size 8 but needs one of the winery workers (same as Plan 6). I haven't optimized this one but I did get it to work, so if there is interest in pursuing this one, I can nail down and post the turn logs.

Word of warning on the sim posted up-thread. The supermarket does fix the 1-food problem when you work the rice. But for any turns that you aren't working the rice, it gives you an extra food that you don't have. So some of these might be a few food off but hopefully not anything critical.

All sizes are after the HG increases 1 pop. For the record, PD currently has 5 improved tiles (3 mines, cow, rice).

I think I favor plans 5 or 7. But don't rule out plan 9

[Sullla]

Plan 7 looks good to me... we finish at size 6 (admittedly after HG) only a couple of turns away from growing to size 7. Plus we finish on T118, speeding things along by a turn. I just didnt like the "annihilate Pink Dot to squeeze out an extra turn" approach, when we dont even know if we are racing anyone.

[regoarrarr]

Well, the combination of T112 worker actions with our granary whip mis-click / whatever make Plan 7 impossible. Plan 7 needed Parsons to also move on yellow and chop this turn, but he is on the tile S-S of Pink Dot.

As we stand we are at size 5, food 5/30 and 37 overflow. Meaning we need 213 . If we can get 5 chops (and I think that we can and still build HG on T118), that means we need 63 raw hammers, which we could do also generating 21 food (putting us at 26/30).

Here are some / most of the possible options
1. Ask for a reload due to the granary mis-click / whip / whatever happened there
2. Stick with a modified plan 7, generating 21 food and 67 hammers in the next 5 turns (113-117), with HG T118 and PD size 6 26/32 after HG
3. Delay things to get PD to grow to size 6 on the same turn as the HG build, meaning HG on T119 and PD size 7 with around 17/34 in the box.

It sounds like we probably have more pressing things to do in the Cape Town worker with any of the winery workers (Helmholtz?)

[sooooo]

The war with Imperio is far more important than this wonder. If we lose cape town we are toast. I think most of our workers should be improving the road network to cape town and chopping its forests outside the city. We could really do with a (straight) road from Pink Dot to Cape Town. I actually think we should not even build an aqueduct yet, just go straight military from Pink Dot and have the workers build a road for us (or chop military).

[regoarrarr]

Agreed that the war or potential war is more important than this wonder. I'm just presenting the options. I guess a #4 - just scrap the whole idea should also be presented.

[Swiss Pauli]

Plan 7 was never possible as Parsons was 4 tiles from the roaded forest, making chopping impossible.

How about timing initial chop(s) to allow a 1 pop whip of aqueduct with max overflow? I think we need to move Heimholz to Cape Town, so let's forget about him for HG.

[regoarrarr]

As far as I can tell, Parsons would have been able to make it to and chop the tile that Syme is currently chopping.

But it's okay. Those 3 workers can chop 5 forests, and we already got 1 whip of the granary for 30 extra shields, so we just need 67 hammers over the next 5 turns, which is definitely doable.

[ruff_hi]

Sorry to throw a spanner (wrench) into the works, but do we want to chase this wonder instead of building troops? If so, can I ask that we delay (as much as possible), the forest chops so that we can divert them into units if we find that we really need to.

I guess the military argument for building HGs is that we can convert the 'free' population increases into units.

[regoarrarr]

We need 5 chops. Current plan is, with the turns the chops come in:

John chops 112-114
Syme chops 112-114
Parsons chops 113-115
Syme chops 115-117
John chops 116-117 and Parsons finishes that chop on 117.

So 2 come at 114, one at 115, and 2 at 117.

[Dreylin]

Ruff, I am uncomfortable with pursuing this as well, however I believe the argument would run along these lines:

The only thing which we can currently build in PD which would influence the outcome at Cape Town is Chariots. However, iIn ~5t we will have HBR, and can use the civ-wide pop increase from HG to whip 4-6 Horse Archers across our empire.

What I think we do need is more Workers heading East. Currently we have 1-2 making their slow way over when we really need 4-5. In addition to reconnecting resources, we also desperately need to chop 1 forest and have a second which is fairly urgent - all in the next 7turns.

I think we may need to entertain the idea of pushing a worker out of Cape Town to fulfill this need.

[sunrise089]

I'm inclined to agree Dreylin, since HAs have a much longer useful life to us. I also do agree that while the wonder is fine for Pink's PRODUCTION for several turns, it isn't ideal to neglect worker turns on the likely military front. I can't load the game at work, but we've got to make sure we have a (better than SP) road network and forests chopped before we have to fight.

[mostly-harmless]

A worker out of Cape Town needs 5 turns iirc. We could put some turns into a worker there as long as we don't have HBR.

mh

[Swiss Pauli]

OK guys, let's put it to the vote:

- HG Benefits: 7 extra pop, GE points, denial to other teams (PAL).

- HG costs: 213 hammers (including aqueduct).

- Alternative builds: archer/chariot then HAs. Maybe a turn or two of research to allow chops to be stockpiled for HAs.

Keep your vote post simple for ease of counting. Further arguments to go in a separate post

Deadline for votes 24 hours from the time of this post!

[regoarrarr]

double post