Operation: "Hanging Gardens"

[regoarrarr]

So, if we want to double whip the aqueduct, we want to end a turn (probably T115) with 69/100 hammers in the box, right? Currently we have 67, which is fairly close, so let's go with that for now.

As it stands, the food box will be reset next turn and the granary will start filling. So we whip on T115, which drops us to size 4, where we work the rice, cows, and 2 hills. On T115, we have 9 food in the granary, and are making 5fpt and 10hpt.

Okay so here's Plan #4 (double whip on T115 for HG on T118)
==================
T112-114: Same as plan #3

T115 Aqueduct 67/100: 15 shields added + 60 shields (2 chop) + 60 shields (2 whip) = 135 shields added
Syme moves NE-E to purple and starts chopping (3t), Parsons chopping (done), John chopping (done)

T116 Aqueduct completed, 102 overflow + 10 base = 112 * 2 = 224 shields added
Syme chopping (2t), Parsons and John done

T117 Hanging Gardens (224/300): 10 shields added + 30 shields (chop) = 40 * 2 = 80 shields added
Syme chopping (done)

T118 Hanging Gardens complete (304/300) - Pink dot regrows to size 5, and is HG-ified back to size 6.

==================

But what if we TRIPLE whipped the aqueduct? We'd want to do that on T115 also, but delay Syme's chop so it counts on T115 rather than T114.
T112-113: Same as plan #3
T114 Aqueduct 22/100: 15 shields = 15 shields added
Syme waits (2t), Parsons chopping (2t), John chopping (2t)

T115 Aqueduct 37/100: 15 shields added + 90 shields (3 chop) + 90 shields (3 whip) = 195 shields added
Syme moves NE-E to purple and starts chopping (3t), Parsons chopping (done), John chopping (done)

T116 Aqueduct completed, 132 overflow + 10 base = 142 * 2 = 284 shields added
Syme chopping (2t), Parson move N to blue, John move W to blue

T117 Hanging Gardens (284/300): 10 shields added + 30 shields (chop) = 40 * 2 = 80 shields added
Syme chopping (done), Parsons chopping (3t), John chopping (2t)

T118 Hanging Gardens complete (304/300) - Pink dot regrows to size 5, and is HG-ified back to size 6.

I think that still only gets us done on T118, but I'm not very good at micro-math.

I'd be very interested in simming this out this evening but I'm awful at WB. If someone has some time to get a WB save up before this evening I could try it out. Or even if someone could find the one we did several turns ago, I could probably get that base up and running with current techs and workers and such.

The other thing I'd be interested in looking at is if we swap off the rice to a plains forest right now so that we don't grow this turn. That lets us fill the granary a bit more and then we swap to grow to size 6 the turn we whip. Actually depending on our current food in box (can't tell from the screenshot) we might grow from 3 to 4 just due to less food needed to grow to size 4 than to size 6.

[ruff_hi]

T115 Aqueduct 67/100: 15 shields added + 60 shields (2 chop) + 60 shields (2 whip) = 135 shields added
Syme moves NE-E to purple and starts chopping (3t), Parsons chopping (done), John chopping (done)

I think the '15 shields added' should be '10 shields added' because you just killed 2 citizens.

The other question I have is the whip hammer overflow into a wonder - do they get halved?

Ideal solution is to have a sandpit we can play with - will update the latest one I have for this current situation - will try and do that tonight.

[regoarrarr]

So that leaves us 6 hammers short, which I'm sure we can make up in some way (rice->PF, etc)

I'm 95% sure that hammers that overflow into a wonder are not affected / halved

[ruff_hi]

Here is a test game for Pink Dot's run at the Hanging Garden. The rest of the game is total crap (ie Airstrip 1 has a quarried stone tile and PD has the Globe).

PD is ...
Size 5
27/30 food in the hopper
54/60 hammers into the Granary

My game shows PD at 13 food even though I can count to 14 by counting the tiles. It is counting the farmed rice for 4 food but showing 5. Am I missing something?

Go Crazy!

Edit: I haven't positioned the workers and some of the roads might be off.

[T-hawk]

My game shows PD at 13 food even though I can count to 14 by counting the tiles. It is counting the farmed rice for 4 food but showing 5. Am I missing something?

I'm at work (can't look now), but does it have fresh water access? Do you know Agriculture? Maybe advance a turn and it will recalculate the irrigation?

[Swiss Pauli]

Looked at the test save, and it's definitely counting 1 food fewer than it should be. No change after advancing a turn

Can be 'fixed' by adding a supermarket (see attached).

[ruff_hi]

'can be fixed by adding a supermarket' - can we ask Krill to add that to PD in-game too

[Krill]

Can't do that without giving you guys the admin password IIRC...

[Dreylin]

I was going to say that White and Yellow should be the last two forests chopped, but I see that they are the only two that Syme and Parsons can reach and start on next turn.

I'm a little (lot?) uncomfortable with our defenses if we pursue this plan, but agree that it doesn't seem like anyone is gearing up to attack us in the immediate future. A1 should befinitely keep working (slowly) on military while PD is off Wonder-chasing.

[Swiss Pauli]

I had a few runs with the test save, and plan 4 with a 2 pop whip is the best approach as we can't get lower than T118 as 4 chops are required.

[ruff_hi]

did you try the 'whip granary' option?

[ruff_hi]

Aquaduct (100H), HG (300H) needs 250 raw hammers allowing for stone.

T112:
Anarchy

T113:
Whip Granary
Reconfig PD to 3 mines plus cows
13 hammers, 30 from whip for 37 hammers into Aquaduct / HG

T114:
Grows to 5
Reconfig PD to 3 mines, cows, rice
13 hammers for 50 hammers into Aquaduct / HG

T115: 13 hammers for 63 hammers into Aquaduct / HG
T116: 13 hammers for 76 hammers into Aquaduct / HG
T117: 13 hammers for 89 hammers into Aquaduct / HG
T118: 13 hammers for 101 hammers into Aquaduct / HG

T119 - HG's finished with 150 hammers from 5 chops.

So it looks like the double whip of the aquaduct is better.

[ruff_hi]

Updated rego plan #4 allowing for modified base hammer production after double whip ...

Okay so here's Plan #4 (double whip on T115 for HG on T118)
==================
T112-114: Same as plan #3

T115 Aqueduct 67/100: 13 shields added + 60 shields (2 chop) + 60 shields (2 whip) = 133 shields added
PD configured to work the 3 mines and the cows (size 4)
Syme moves NE-E to purple and starts chopping (3t), Parsons chopping (done), John chopping (done)

T116 Aqueduct completed, 100 overflow + 10 base = 110 * 2 = 220 shields added
PD configured to work the 2 mines, cows, rice (size 4)
Syme chopping (2t), Parsons and John done

T117 Hanging Gardens (220/300): 10 shields added + 30 shields (chop) = 40 * 2 = 80 shields added
Syme chopping (done)

T118 Hanging Gardens complete (300/300) - Pink dot regrows to size 5, and is HG-ified back to size 6.

This is pretty good as we only need to work a mine instead of the rice for 1 turn.

[ruff_hi]

I'm 95% sure that hammers that overflow into a wonder are not affected / halved

Confirmed. 100% of the overflow came thru and then gets doubled.

[regoarrarr]

Comments: If we go for the wonder, this is the plan to follow. We can squeeze more shields out of Pink, but there's really no way to complete the Gardens faster than T119.

QFT

Do I hear.... T117? This is a bit extreme but I think it is worth it. It makes use of a triple whip and so Pink Dot is at size 3 at the end (rather than 4) but I think that the extra turn of * our 7 cities is worth it.
IT DOES REQUIRE ACTION ON THIS (T111) TURN SO IT'S A GOOD THING WE HAVEN'T ENDED TURN YET
====
Plan #5 (HG on T117)
T111 (THIS TURN): John cancels his cottaging

T112: (anarchy) Syme moves SE-NE-NE to yellow and starts chopping (3t), Parsons moves N-NW-NE-E to blue, John chopping on red (3t)

T113: Parsons chops (3t), Syme and John chop (2t). Pink Dot to size 6, work grass forest (2-1-0) - hammers are not needed for the HG so go for growth. We could also work the 2/0/2 lake if we want (I think)

T114: Syme and John's chops come in. Triple whip the aqueduct. Work rice cow and mine.

T115: John N to purple. Syme NE-E-chop (purple). Parson's chop is in

T116: John and Syme chop and the forest is in - HG 304/300. is 17/26 at 6 fpt.

T117: HG built.

Some interesting things I noted while doing this.

1. At one point I had 3 chops coming in while I triple whipped the aqueduct (all on the same turn). That resulted in 109 overflow but because that exceeds the cost (100) of the 'duct, the extra 9 hammers were converted to gold. this thread has more info.

2. John's cottaging is not lost. I tested this out on the test save. I set someone to cottaging a forested tile for 3 turns, then canceled, and had him chop the forest. After the forest chop came in, the cottage only needed 1 additional turn.

Feel free to check out my math / plan.

Cue Krill asking "And what turn will you have the Hanging Gardens on again?"