The T120 Imperio NAP Expiry Crisis

[mostly-harmless]

This is our plan when the Imperio stack moves into our territory:

1) Hit Imperio stack with catapults (ideally at least 5)
2) Eliminate elephants with high-attack units (maces/elephants)
3) Destroy Imperio cats by flanking with horse archers

This is the latest update on the Imperio stack:
3 x Phant
2 x Mace
1 x HA
2 x Chariot (assuming the scout will join up)
7 x Cat
~5 x Longbow

Sunrise (or someone else), can you please re-asses what we need to win that battle? I am a bit concerned our current defenders at Cape Town are a bit small in numbers and we might have to hit them on T130/131 already. We have 40hpt at Cape Town + 38h overflow, so should be able to build units worth ~200h til T131.

mh

[sunrise089]

Right now Imperio's units are unpromoted, but I assume that will change before they move in. As long as we're on flat land all we really need is a bit of collateral and then all of our Maces, Elephants, and Horse Archers should win their battles. Maybe the axe as well.

The biggest danger really is that we probably won't be able to kill the entire stack in one turn and so whatever cats survive will be able to really hurt us with collateral. That should the survivable though because Imperio should have few units left that can actually kill units. With the current forces we have (2 cats, 3 strength-8 units, 3 strength-6 units) things could get dicey if the combat system has their maces defend first on flat land (does anyone know whether maces or jumbos would be the top defender with identical promotions?). With 200 hammers more in play though, I assume we can get two more elephants and one more cat. As long as we have equal numbers of strength-8 units and collateral I feel we'll be ok.

[sunrise089]

I ran a test in worldbuilder with our stack facing the Imperio stack in the open. Assumptions:

*Team RB - 4 strength-8 units, 4 horse archers, 4 cats, 1 ax, 4 spears, 3 archers.
*Imperio - 2 maces, 3 elephants, 2 horse archers, 4 longbows, 7 cats.
*One promo on each unit, combat one on everything but the cats who had collateral.

Results after one round:

*RB casualties - 3 cats, 1 horse archer, 1 archer
*Imperio casualties - 1 mace, 2 elephants, 1 horse archer, 4 longbows, 5 cats
*Imperio survivors - 1 war elephant, 1 mace, 1 horse archer, 2 cats
*Number of Imperio cats DAMAGED due to flanking - 7, number DESTROYED - 0.

Tomorrow I will run the test a few more times and try to refine it. But in general, we have a survivable situation. Assuming of course we don't run the simulation for real

[mostly-harmless]

Can you refine your sim with the forces like this:
*Team RB - 4 phant, 2 mace, 3 horse archers, 4 cats, 1 ax, 3 spears, 3 archers, 2 chariot

*Imperio - 2 maces, 3 elephants, 1 horse archers, 5 longbows, 8 cats, 1 Holkan, 2 Chariot

I think this is more up to date.

mh

[sunrise089]

Can you refine your sim with the forces like this:
*Team RB - 4 phant, 2 mace, 3 horse archers, 4 cats, 1 ax, 3 spears, 3 archers, 2 chariot

*Imperio - 2 maces, 3 elephants, 1 horse archers, 5 longbows, 8 cats, 1 Holkan, 2 Chariot

I think this is more up to date.

mh

Happy to. I will do so this afternoon.

Do you know if you assumption that all of the units have one promo is accurate? And has Imperio promoted anything to anything other than combat one? Have we?

[mostly-harmless]

Assume that all Imp units are unpromoted but have 5XPs (barracks & Vassalage) so can grab 2 promos.
I cannot say for how many units that is true, so assume the worst.
We can only say that one Imperio chariot is less than 2XP.
All our units have 3XP and are unpromoted except the two chariots which are CombatI+II&Shock and CombatI.

mh

[sunrise089]

Assume that all Imp units are unpromoted but have 5XPs (barracks & Vassalage) so can grab 2 promos.
I cannot say for how many units that is true, so assume the worst.
We can only say that one Imperio chariot is less than 2XP.
All our units have 3XP and are unpromoted except the two chariots which are CombatI+II&Shock and CombatI.

mh

I'll run the numbers with them unpromoted and then promoted. Imperio would be fools though to move next to our city without promoting the units.

[ruff_hi]

Do we have a plan for what we do after we decimate their initial stack?

options ...

• start gearing up for round #2
• Do we go on the offensive
• do we contact them, tell them to stop being silly and ask for compensation for their unprovoked attack
• other?

[sunrise089]

I would email them and tell them they just burned 200+ more hammers than we did and
that we can outproduce them.

Then I would offer a NAP.

With just a few cities on military and a wounded stack, I don't see us taking down Imperio's longbow-defended cities. But if they're incompetent and refuse to slave defenders than we should take any opportunities to pillage or raze a city that are presented.

EDIT - Imperio doesn't have the EP to do anything crazy do they? Like initiate a city revolt?

[mostly-harmless]

But if they're incompetent and refuse to slave defenders than we should take any opportunities to pillage or raze a city that are presented.

EDIT - Imperio doesn't have the EP to do anything crazy do they? Like initiate a city revolt?

Still no slavery for IMperio,
and no they have only ~230 EP, so that should not buy them a city revolt by a wide margin. T-Hawk?

mh

[sunrise089]

Still no slavery for IMperio,
and no they have only ~230 EP, so that should not buy them a city revolt by a wide margin. T-Hawk?

mh

Heh, at least this time I remembered. But surely if their stack gets wrecked and their Templar allies aren't able to take a city Imperio must revolt into slavery as a defensive measure. Right?

[ruff_hi]

... we should take any opportunities to pillage

this was my thinking too ... they have some nice looking towns just across the desert!

[T-hawk]

Still no slavery for IMperio,
and no they have only ~230 EP, so that should not buy them a city revolt by a wide margin. T-Hawk?

mh

From upthread

City Revolt costs 500 EP base. The list of multiplier factors is pretty long, and there's no direct way in-game to see or work out the cost multiplier against your own cities. Here's a stab:

Distance +15%
Espionage spending -20% (if they have double ours)
Trade route -20% (only if they do it before declaring war which cancels the open borders)
Religion -25% (if Islam spreads there since Imperio owns the holy city)
Stationary spy -50%

Assuming Islam stays out of Cape Town, a revolt is possible at ~184 EP (500 * 1.15 * .8 * .8 * .5). Once war is declared, the trade route discount no longer applies so it will cost minimum ~230 EP.

Revolting Cape Town is a possibility with their current EP total, although it requires a spy stationary for a full 5 turns.

[mostly-harmless]

They don't have double our epts iirc and they don't get the trade route discount.

mh

[Dreylin]

But if the revolt before declaring war, they would only be able to attack CT with 2-move units on that turn before the revolt wears off, right?