Operation "Great Library"

[Swiss Pauli]

Originally posted by Sullla As mostly_harmless said, they key question is picking up Mathematics. Trade Aesthetics to Imperio for Math? We better be confident in our pre-chopping situation if we do that!

If we want to do this, we should propose it to Imperio now, as they'll have just started a new tech, which could well be Aesthetics

[ruff_hi]

Tech Situation T92

Aeth is 4 turns away.
Lit is 6 turns after that (from F6 in the game).
90 gold in the bank at -17gpt (@100% science), +30gpt (0% science).

10 turns of 100% science will take 170 gold.
This means we need to generate 80 gold.
That will take 3 turns.

So, we can discover literature in 4+6+3 (13) turns.

If we can bring down Literature to 5, it will only take 4+5+2 (11) turns assuming we can make up the 3 (90 - 9 * 17 + 2 * 30) gold shortfall somewhere (cottage maturing, working commerce tiles, etc).

[mostly-harmless]

Hiring two scientists in A1 brought down Lit to 5 turns last time I checked.

mh

[regoarrarr]

Or we could hire 2 scientists at China Beach

[sunrise089]

I like the 1 turn plan Ruff - cost is pretty low (just some extra worker turns) and I think is more than offset both by guarantee we get the wonder and by earlier access to future scientists.

[sooooo]

Have we factored in that settling the new city next turn will take a lot of gold out of the treasury?

Also, I was wondering about the tile configuration at Airstrip One? The worker is due in 5 turns. Can we work the cottage for any turns instead of the mine? It does get an extra gold, but I don't know when we need the worker complete by. If we are not able to reduce literature to 5 turns, and we need to switch to building research at x-2, then we can afford a 6-turn worker. But if we can get it down to 5 turns, then we need to keep a 5-turn worker but may be able to work the cottage for at least some of those turns.

BTW, for anyone doing calculations: One of the hamlets we are working will change to a village next turn.

[ruff_hi]

Great Lib update ...

Current situation ... T95
Aeth due in 1 at 100% science
Literature due in 5 at 100% science
40 gold in the bank
at 100% science, we are -19 gpt
at 0% science, we are +34 gpt

6 turns of tech cost 114 gold
2 turns of 0% tech will net us 68 gold, for a total of 108 gold

Turn 95
0% tech, gold to 74

Turn 96
0% tech, gold to 108

Turn 97
100% tech

Turn 98
Aeth Discovered
Literature Started (5)

Turn 99
Literature (4)

Turn 100
Literature (3)
A1 is building something that is 1 hammer short

Turn 101
Literature (2)
A1 completes something, 15 hammers into overflow
A1 builds science (configuration unimportant)
Need mathematics before chop!
2 forest chops (60 hammers)

Turn 102
Literature (1)
A1 builds science (configuration unimportant)
2 forest chops (60 hammers)

Turn 103
Literature Discovered
A1 starts Great Library (350 hammers required)
1 forest chops (60 hammers)
Hammers into Great Library (5 x 30 + 15 + 15) x 2 = 360

Turn 104
Great Library Complete

[ruff_hi]

If we cannot get Maths, then we need 2 turns of production plus 1 turn of overflow and 7 chops to complete it. Providing we can do the chops, then we can completeit on Turn 105.

[7 * 20 + 3 * 15] * 2 = 370 hammers.

[Sullla]

There is no conceivable way we can get 7 pre-chops ready in the next ~5-6 turns... I don't want to get too complacent, but if we have Literature as soon as T104, with five pre-chops ready to go, with marble, I don't see any conceivable way that we lose the wonder to another team.

And while it would be really cool to complete Literature and the Great Library on the same turn, we don't have to bend over backwards doing it either. If it takes us an extra turn or two, I don't think it's a problem. (I like having all these sims as an ideal best-case scenario though! )

EDIT: Also, Ruff your updated sim doesn't take account of our improved research capacity. We can research Literature in only 4 turns, not 5. This gives us a little more margin for error.

[ruff_hi]

Originally posted by Sullla
EDIT: Also, Ruff your updated sim doesn't take account of our improved research capacity. We can research Literature in only 4 turns, not 5. This gives us a little more margin for error.

I got the 5 turns for literature from the game by clicking on Lit on F6.

without maths ... 5 chops is 5 x 20 x 2 = 200 hammers, leaving us 150 via normal production or 5 turns. In that case, there is no point building science to store the chops, may as well just let them come thru normally (but chopped post Lit).

[Zeviz]

Can building science help us shave a turn off of Literature?

[sooooo]

With the great scientists I just hired literature is now just 3 turns away. Our worker is 2 turns away from completion at Airstrip One. I think that's OK since we no longer need to store chops while building research, right? We need to get our workers in place to chop in 3 turns.

[ruff_hi]

hmmn - can we micro Airstrip One to delay the worker so that it completes in 3 turns with max hammer / food overflow? I don't think we are in a rush to position all of the workers - some of our pre-chopped forests are roaded.

[ruff_hi]

Turn 99
Literature (2)
A1 is currently producing 31.25 beakers per turn and will finish the worker this turn with a 2 hammer overflow. There are two workers available (not counting worker in production).

Here is the plan if we don't have mathematics ...

T100
Literature (1)
A1 completes worker with 2 hammer overflow - builds science, tech or gold (GL plan doesn't care)
New worker (NW) moves W to pre-chopped, non-roaded forest
W1 moves to pre-chopped, roaded forest and chops --> 20 hammers
W2 moves to pre-chopped, roaded forest and chops --> 20 hammers

T101
Literature finished
A1 starts Great Library (350 hammers required), moves to max hammer configuration (16 @ -1 food)
NW chops --> 20 hammers
W1 moves to pre-chopped, roaded forest and chops --> 20 hammers
W2 moves to virgin forest 2N of capital
Current turns production is [2 + 4 x 20 + 16] x 2 = 196

T102
A1 --> GLib (196/350)
W1 move to W2 tile
W2 chops (2/3)
NW - ???
Current turns production 32

T103
A1 --> GLib (228/350)
W1 + W2 chops --> 20 hammers
NW - ???
Current turns production 32 + 40

T104
A1 --> GLib (300/350)
Current turns production 32

T105
A1 --> GLib (332/350)
Current turns production 32

T106
GLib completes

Here is the plan if we do have mathematics ...

T100
Literature (1)
A1 completes worker with 2 hammer overflow - builds science, tech or gold (GL plan doesn't care)
New worker (NW) moves W to pre-chopped, non-roaded forest
W1 moves to pre-chopped, roaded forest and chops --> 30 hammers
W2 moves to pre-chopped, roaded forest and chops --> 30 hammers

T101
Literature finished
A1 starts Great Library (350 hammers required), moves to max hammer configuration (16 @ -1 food)
NW chops --> 30 hammers
W1 moves to pre-chopped, roaded forest and chops --> 30 hammers
W2 moves to virgin forest 2N of capital
Current turns production is [2 + 4 x 30 + 16] x 2 = 276

T102
A1 --> GLib (276/350)
W1 move to W2 tile
W2 chops (2/3)
NW - ???
Current turns production 32

T103
A1 --> GLib (308/350)
W1 + W2 chops --> 30 hammers
NW - ???
Current turns production 32 + 60

T104
GLib completes

Here is an optional plan if we don't have mathematics ...

T99 <-- this turn!!!
Literature (2)
A1 reconfigured to max hammers (16 @ -1 food)
A1 will complete worker with 11 hammer overflow
Literature (back to 3!!)
Unfortunately, this configuration means we are 1.25 beakers short - this must be found somewhere in other cities over during T99 or T100

T100
Literature (2)
A1 configuration important - max science (36.25 beakers!)
Literature (back to 1 assuming we found the 1.25 beakers required)
New worker (NW) moves W to pre-chopped, non-roaded forest
W1 moves to pre-chopped, roaded forest and chops --> 20 hammers
W2 moves to pre-chopped, roaded forest and chops --> 20 hammers

T101
Literature finished (see note above re other cities and picking up 1.25 beakers!)
A1 starts Great Library (350 hammers required), moves to max hammer configuration (16 @ -1 food)
NW chops --> 20 hammers
W1 moves to pre-chopped, roaded forest and chops --> 20 hammers
W2 moves to virgin forest 2N of capital
Current turns production is [11 + 4 x 20 + 16] x 2 = 214

T102
A1 --> GLib (214/350)
W1 move to W2 tile
W2 chops (2/3)
NW - ???
Current turns production 32

T103
A1 --> GLib (246/350)
W1 + W2 chops --> 20 hammers
NW - ???
Current turns production 32 + 40

T104
A1 --> GLib (318/350)
Current turns production 32

T105
A1 --> GLib (350/350)
GLib completes

I guess if we use this optional plan I will need to turn myself into the dispute thread for suitable Indiansmoke punishment

PS: Can someone review my maths please?

[Dreylin]

Production maths looks OK to me. Re: the "Optional w/o Mathematics" plan, would we get the required 1.25 beakers from producing Science at A1 for the turn between producing the Worker and starting GL?