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New Issue: The Barb City

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  • New Issue: The Barb City

    As mostly_harmless has pointed out, a barb city spawned right on the border between us and the Templars this turn:



    The Templars definitely know it is there, since their capital's borders touch the city. This is pretty bad luck for us, as the Templars' stupid policy of building lots of quechuas is potentially going to luck them into a free city! (If only it could have spawned two tiles west...)

    On Prince difficulty, a barb city will appear with 2 archers on defense, both set to the "AI City Defense" mission, meaning they will fortify and defend. Keep in mind too that a barb city captured at size 1 will auto-raze. Must be at least size 2 to keep. So with those factors in mind, how to we want to play this? Here are some potential options:

    1) Ignore it. The city is too close to the Templars and we'll let them deal with it.
    2) Send a couple of archers down there to watch the situation, and possibly sneak out a city capture if the opportunity presents itself.
    3) Go all out and make a serious effort to get the city ourselves. This would likely entail building 3 or 4 archers at this point.
    4) Try to deal with the situation diplomatically. See if we can get the Templars to agree that that area is a demilitarized zone (DMZ) and that whoever takes the city will raze it.
    5) Wait for Iron Working to be discovered and go after the city if it's still there (very unlikely to be the case).

    Obviously the presence of quechuas with their archer bonus makes things a lot more difficult... I'm leaning towards #2 personally. After we finish the barracks at Pink, have it squeeze out a couple of archers who can at least monitor the situation. We probably wanted a few more archers out of Pink anyway, and that would allow them to do something useful while waiting for future cities to be built.

    Other thoughts, suggestions, options? If we want to manufacture a border controversy with Templars, this would be a good opportunity for that as well.

  • #2
    Keep in mind that we have 'agreed' not to expand past Pink Dot. We could argue that means 'found a new city' and not capture a barb city.

    I would like to offer one other option ...

    2a) as per Sullla above but then we gift it to Templar.

    This would lower our threat level to them and go some distance to lulling them into a false sense of security.

    My preference is for 4).
    Quote: "All Happiness is the release of internal pressure"
    Visit my Civ IV web site for information on mods that I am involved with or use and other Civ IV tools
    woo hoo! My wife publishes her first book. Buy it now in paperback format at lulu and help me retire so I can write more BUG mod code.

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    • #3
      4 is my pick as well. If that can't happen though I'm good with 2 if there is any chance of actually taking the city. Will one of the AI archers move out of the city? Otherwise I don't if 2 archers will actually accomplish anything.

      I definately don't favor a diplo-crushing expansion-slowing all-out archer rush on the city.

      Comment


      • #4
        Why would the templars agree to raze the city? It's in a perfect position to them. If a barb city appeared on our red dot and an AI sent a message suggesting a DMZ, we would laugh our collective heads off at them. Seriously, option 4 is pretty blatant insult to them.

        If the city is defended by 2 archers, then this is really a non-issue. We won't have the troops to take it until the templars do. Sending down 5 archers just isn't worth the hammers (3 or 4 would die) or the diplomacy hit. If by some means of incompetence the templars haven't taken the city by the time we get 3-4 swordsmen, then I'd rather they spend their quechuas and/or axes attacking the archers than using up our swordsmen to raise some cash and cause diplomatic issues.

        My vote is option 1

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        • #5
          Is it feasible to consider settling a city 1W of the grassland marble in the near-ish future to help solidate the border and get a cultural headstart choose we go with Option 1? They get the stone, we get the marble, I think I recall something about "resource sharing"...

          Comment


          • #6
            I completely agree with Sooooo. In addition to everything else, that city will be useless until IW and will require at least two workers even then.

            My preference is option 1 (or option 5, which amounts to the same thing).

            Comment


            • #7
              I am also in agreement with sooooo & Zeviz here.
              Keep in mind that with Jerusalems border popping in the next turns the Barb City's BFC (north easterly tiles) will be contested territory right from the beginning.

              I suggest to settle Red Dot as an answer to the situation.
              As preparation we can send one unit south (a new archer from Pink Dot for example) to scout the city. That should hopefully force Templars into some actions. Through the diplomatic channels we can make clear that we appreciate how nicely the city fits into Templars dot map and that we won't try to take it ourselves. If we really luck out Templars refrain from training lots of new units but reshuffle their "defensive sentinels", allowing us to settle Red Dot.

              On top of that, it is probably prudent to scout our northern territories again for other barb cities.

              mh

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              • #8
                I am taking my dog for a walk in about 30 mins (for about 45) - really good time for thinking on stuff. Anyway, I'll draft an email to Templars when I get back covering these issues:

                - barb city
                - happens to be in 'zone between us and them' where we both agreed not to settle
                - we will not be sending units against it as it is in this zone
                - what are your (Templars) thoughts on this city?

                Other?
                Quote: "All Happiness is the release of internal pressure"
                Visit my Civ IV web site for information on mods that I am involved with or use and other Civ IV tools
                woo hoo! My wife publishes her first book. Buy it now in paperback format at lulu and help me retire so I can write more BUG mod code.

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                • #9
                  We seem to be in general agreement on this issue. I'll concur that the next step involves drafting an email to send to the Templars. We should probably leave room to send at least one unit down there to monitor the situation though.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    copy of the draft email that is in the templar thread - any revisions will be done there (and in gmail). We should also expand this to respond to their earlier email.

                    Greetings Templars:

                    I expect that you will have noticed the new Barbarian City that popped in the 'buffer' zone between RealmsBeyond and yourself. I've been asked to contact you regarding your intentions vis-à-vis said city. RealmsBeyond currently has no plans regarding this city - however, RB may send 1 or 2 archers down to the region to invite a suitable Barbarian target (as opposed to those units walking through our city.

                    If RB was to put forth an eradication party, the city would be razed to avoid Templar - RB stress.

                    What are the Templar's thoughts regarding this city?

                    Ruff
                    Your Voice to the Realms Beyond Team
                    Last edited by ruff_hi; September 8, 2008, 10:16.
                    Quote: "All Happiness is the release of internal pressure"
                    Visit my Civ IV web site for information on mods that I am involved with or use and other Civ IV tools
                    woo hoo! My wife publishes her first book. Buy it now in paperback format at lulu and help me retire so I can write more BUG mod code.

                    Comment

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