Turnplayer Thread #2.

[Sullla]

mh, the quarry will take more than 5 turns to improve (quarries are one of the slowest improvements to build) and by that time, borders will expand and we'll be working the fish tile anyway. Or, at least that was my logic. I hate moving a worker onto a forest tile, losing a turn to move there, and then not building a road so I have to lose another turn to move back onto it later.

Now you probably have a point regardless, since we'll rapidly grow to size 2 and THEN want to work the quarry...

[Zeviz]

I also like Workers to road as they go, unless there is an urgent need for them at their destination. And I agree about working cottage and starting road/prechop in the direction of Barbtown.

For attacking chariot, what about C2 instead of shock promotion? This will still help if Barbtown turns out to be guarded by archers.

[Sullla]

Based on the recommendations of the team, I swapped Airstrip One over to the extra cottage. We are working 4 of them (plus the grassland cows) at present. Sadly, all four cottages (3+3+2+2=10) barely outdo the 9 commerce Imperio gets from working a single gold mine. THAT's why gold resources at the start are ridiculously unbalancing...

I ran a Worldbuilder test of Meele versus Combat II promotions for Betty Hur. The former got 98.7% odds against a barb warrior in forest, while the latter got 96.1%. That was essentially a wash, so I considered likely targets for our chariots to fight against, and they were all melee anyway! I'm expecting barb warriors in the city up north, and possibility of fighting Templar/Imperio axeman. So I went ahead with Melee promotion, Betty won the fight with ease.

Betty gained 2XP from the fight! Now at 8XP overall. Now we really, really want to have her take the barb warriors in the city up north (assuming they are warriors, of course). Only 2 more victories away from getting Heroic Epic enabled, and that would be huge. Early Heroic Epic in Pink Dot = win.

[mostly-harmless]

@ Sullla: Worker Parsons has still one move point left. Any particular reason?

I bet that forest chop at Lakamha goes towards The Oracle.

from C&D: Imperio and Templars just traded ancient techs. Meditation (Imperio) vs. Polytheism (Templars) if I read the foreign tech screen correctly.

mh

[Sullla]

It makes no difference for Parsons to move one more tile this turn (he's going SW-SW-S next turn onto the forested grassland hill to chop/min it) and there's a very small possibility of a barb being on the grassland forest tile SW-W in the fog.

[mostly-harmless]

Ah, ok.

mh

[Sullla]

T88 was mostly a turn of waiting and setting up actions for future turns. Nonetheless, we have one *HUGE* decision to make, so read on...

- Our settler reached its destination in the south and will found city #5 next turn:



An archer will be there by T92, so we just have to survive a couple of turns unprotected. In an emergency, Betty Hur could also make it there in 3 turns. It would take some disastrous bad luck (a barb on the dyes tile) to cost us here...

- Parsons (Pink Dot), Winston (Airstrip One), and O'Brien (Cape Town) all moved onto forest tiles this turn to set up future worker actions. Parsons is chopping/mining a forested grassland hill for future production. Winston is pre-chopping at the capital. O'Brien is starting the first leg of a road to Twin Peaks.

- Our exploring units creeped closer to the eastern continent. 7 more turns to go!

- Here's the big topic: what do we research next? We completed research on Monotheism this turn and are faced with a fresh choice. We have enough funds to research for about 10 turns. These are the potential options:

Monarchy - the tech we need the most, but also a tech that Imperio (and PAL) already have. If we choose to research this one regardless, we should knock out Priesthood first for the pre-req discount. 7 total turns (1 for Priesthood, 6 for Monarchy)

Mathematics - ideally, Imperio will respond to our trade offer and we can research this next. Would also be useful in chopping for Great Library. Otherwise, not particularly helpful for our situation. 6 turns to research.

Aesthetics - we could also ignore Monarchy temporarily and drive straight for Literature. Ideally, we'd get Monarchy for Aesthetics in a trade. Would be a little harder to chop for Great Library without Math, but time is of the essence in wonder races. Biggest fear - is Imperio already researching this tech? 8 turns to research.

Currency - another economic option. We'd surely be the first ones here, and could very likely get Monarchy in a trade. Extra trade routes would be gigantic. Does take us further away from Great Library, however. 10 turns research.

Horseback Riding - useful if we want to go all-out war. Not my recommendation, as you all know. 6 turns research.

This decision is really, really important. It means the difference between staying among the tech leaders, or falling back into the pack and getting left out of the loop. Please give your input on this - how do we play this one?

[sunrise089]

I guess we can't just do zero tech while we wait for Imperio, so I vote Math, subject to change based on input from the micro experts. My thought is Math+Aesthetics+Lit and chopping the library is about as many turns as Aesthetics+Lit alone. That plus the possible trade for Monarchy (I'm hesitant to try and trade Aesthetics since I think that gives away our GL effort) with Imperio makes me lean towards Math.

[mostly-harmless]

Ordering Betty Hur North instead of staying closer to the settler seems like an unnecessary risk. Fingers crossed.

As for the research, good summary as always, Sullla.

I lean towards sunrise's point. Although we could in theory do a turn of no research (100% gold), I feel we shouldn't waste our library bonus in that way.

My second best option would be currency. This will increase our beaker output by 20-25%, hence speeding up future research, but the detour might cost us the Great Lib.

We can afford to delay Monarchy as long as we keep expanding. Every new city gives us 2 tiles to work.

EDIT: with that Quecha approaching from Chichen Itza, Templars should finally know about Cape Town.

mh

[Kylearan]

Hi,

Originally posted by sunrise089
I vote Math, subject to change based on input from the micro experts. My thought is Math+Aesthetics+Lit and chopping the library is about as many turns as Aesthetics+Lit alone.

I'm not sure the chopping bonus of Math will make up for the detour to the tech, as we can still chop for the Library without Math, only less effective. I'm unsure how many forests we have to chop and so what increase in speed we might gain with Math though, so I'd agree with your opinion of Math next if we only lose 2-3 turns. Otherwise, I'd say beeline for Lit directly. (I don't have the time right now to look myself at the map and do the math, my apologies...)

-Kylearan

[Zeviz]

If we want Great Library, we have to go for Aestetics now. (Having Math will not help us if we are beaten to Literature by half a dozen turns.)

On the other hand, Math is more useful for trading.

So the question is: How important is Great Library? If it's vital, we have to go for Aestetics and not care about loss of production due to lack of Math. If we don't really care, we can go for Math->Currency, trade for CoL and Monarchy, and go on towards CS.

PS Imperio hasn't replied to our offer so far.

PPS In case it wasn't clear, I am voting for Aestetics, unless we decide to ignore GL.

[mostly-harmless]

Well, in the end a lot depends on whether Imperio agrees to the offered trade, in which case we have to go for Math first.

mh

[mostly-harmless]

I run a few numbers for the Great Lib.

A1 at its current size of 5 (assuming we do not get additional happy when beelining Literature) can produce 16 hammers (at -1fpt which should be ok for a small period of time.
With Marble connected that gives 32 hammers per turn.

Further assuming we can get 5 forests in the BFC pre chopped and can chop them down one per turn (with two workers).
Per chop with Marble we get 40 hammers.

So Literature comes in and we are done 5 turns later:

turn - city - chop - sum/turn - sum
0 ----32 ----40 -------72
1 ----32 ----40 -------72 ------72
2 ----32 ----40 -------72 -----144
3 ----32 ----40 -------72 -----216
4 ----32 ----40 -------72 -----288
5 ----0 ------0 --------0 -----360 (350 needed)

A detour to Maths purely for the sake of speeding up the Great Lib does not seem to pay off.

We also have the option to whip and/or prechop more forests.
Whipping should definitely be considered, no prize for second best here.

In that light, I tend towards putting beakers into Aesthetics now as long as we do not have an agreement with Imperio.

mh

[sooooo]

I prefer mathematics. I'd rather let others fight over the great library and get useful military techs like mathematics, construction and horseback riding.

[ruff_hi]

Aesthetics for me. I think the GL will pay for itself very quickly - improved tech rate and GSc.