Turn 96 - 475 BC, back to the future

[GeoModder]

Let's hope this is the last time I have to open such a thread.

For starters, I happened to bump in the Imperio turnplayer when opening the turn, and we had an interesting chat.

That's the gist of the conversation. The last interesting line Imperioplayer said was "maybe, maybe not" on my remark that PAL would probably choose to continue hostilities on us whether or not we're under vassalage of Imperio.
After that, just finishing pleasantries.

[RobWorham]

Great work Geo!!!

As a percentage, what are our honest chances of surviving against PAL??

[ChrisiusMaximus]

id say vassalage is the way to go

as it stands on our own we will be lucky to survive, but i do think a two front war would cripple PAL

[GeoModder]

Sorry for the delay in updates on the front and our townships, but Apolyton bugs out on me big time.

Let's try to enlighten you guys on our production now.

Caerbannog (first screenshot):
Axeman is done next turn, and the worker can be moved to another forest for new production. Happiness situation is looking good. I think in a turn or two we might be able to whip again here for rushing a new unit. I'm thinking of a chariot or an axeman. We seem to have enough spears now (2, with 2 in the pipeline if Valley Hutch survives).

Diggers Burrow (second screenshot):
I whipped the axeman, and scrambled the (chariot) garrison towards Valley Hutch. situation is out of control here.
One worker is in position to start shopping a forest next turn. If things go well around Valley Hutch, a second worker will join him in 2 turns.
Something interesting in case we survive: there's a barb town north of Diggers Burrow, you can just see the cultural border on the topside of the screenshot.

EDIT: oops, that's the northwest of the Caerbannog screenshot and the northeast of the Diggers Burrow screenshot for the barb city.

[GeoModder]

And then comes the hot spot: Valley Hutch.

I made a composition of what the defenders face (first screenshot). Next to VH, 3 standard axes, 1 standard spear and 1 standard war chariot. Last time, our axe and chariot were able to take out 3 attackers. There's an extra axeman in town now so I hope that's enough to or discourage an assault, or at worst case take out 4 attackers.
Chances are they might wait since there's an extra standard axe coming over to join their war stack.
Also, it's now confirmed my theory about how they played false a first time was wrong. They indeed constructed a road in 500 BC (where you see the workers) and moved their army over it. Smart trick, have to remember that one for future (ab)use.

Okay, that's the PAL part. Things don't look so grim on our side now (second screenshot). We have 2 combat1 axes and a chariot in Valley Hutch. As said, I hope it's *just* enough to give at least PAL a second thought about attacking this turn, especially since there's a second chariot ready to attack a unit which might conceivably raze Valley Hutch.
If the city survives this turn, one spear will finish next turn. A second spear can be there in 2 turns. The chariot naturally next turn.

[GeoModder]

And that leaves us the stats (screenshot) and some contemplation on future turns and vassalage under Imperio.

With the loss of Watership Down, our income skyrocketed. I could increase our labslider to 70% with only a 1 deficit enabling us to finish Agriculture in 2 turns instead of 4.


Now about Imperio. Rob and Chrisius already posted in favour of us becoming vassals of Imperio (if they agree among themself to allow us). I'm in favour too. If two more voices (posts) in favour are put here, I'll contact them and tell them we agree on becoming vassals.
This will for sure give Imperio a hefty boost. Not only will their score increase, but since we have automatically open borders with them, and since they already researched Currency, they'll have overseas trade routes with us.

This also brings up the question what to do with Banana. If we become vassals, will we still be able to trade techs with them over Imperio? Something we need to keep in mind in our conversations with them...

Well, that's it for this turn.

[theViking]

Now about Imperio. Rob and Chrisius already posted in favour of us becoming vassals of Imperio (if they agree among themself to allow us). I'm in favour too. If two more voices (posts) in favour are put here, I'll contact them and tell them we agree on becoming vassals.

OK.

[Nugog]

Now about Imperio. Rob and Chrisius already posted in favour of us becoming vassals of Imperio (if they agree among themself to allow us). I'm in favour too. If two more voices (posts) in favour are put here

And this would be a YES!

Nice work Geo.

[Nugog]

This also brings up the question what to do with Banana. If we become vassals, will we still be able to trade techs with them over Imperio? Something we need to keep in mind in our conversations with them...

I believe that we can.

What I am not sure about is how/when we can "break" the vassal agreement as a human team.

A 3 way alliance with Imperio, and us could still lead to PAL's demise - in the longer term.

[GeoModder]

That settles it.

I sent the following message to them through Gmail (I also added their mail address on the list there)

Hi Imperio,

I've put the question of your turnplayer if Caerbannog would be interested in becoming your vassal before the team, and an overwhelming majority agrees with it.
So, at your leisure, we will accept it if we find it in the diplomatic box.

Kind regards,
the Wabbits of Caerbannog

A question, would it be a breaking of the rules if we accept it AFTER we've finished our turn?
I can imagine a situation where one of us logs in after PAL has played to check things out, and first thing that pops up is the Imperio vassalage offer.

[Nugog]

That is a game mechanic IMO.

I say we accept it and move on - I don't see how it would break any rules.

For example - one of us logs in and there is a tech trade - we accept it and move on.

I see no real difference.

However bear in mind I personally see little need for many of the rules we have - and hold most in contempt - including the double move rule.

As far as I am concerned if game mechanics let you do it - then game on.

[Chuckman]

I am in favor of becoming Imperio's vassal. Irrelevant of game mechanics, as soon as they accept our offer we should post in the main forum the new relationship.

[Nugog]

...as soon as they accept our offer we should post in the main forum the new relationship.

Why?

PAL will know straight away as they will then be at war with Imperio.

If other teams do not check the diplo screens - isn't that their problem?