Total number of teams & minimum members limit

[Aidun]

Originally posted by Zoid
Aidun, your post seems like blackmail to me. "Do as I say or I'll do my best to destroy this game!!" I sincerely hope that's not what you're saying...

It is not blackmail. How can I destroy the game on my own by not taking part?

I hope that some people will realize that games are not the place to settle disputes. If people feel they must give a jab to others, they can do that elsewhere. I recall that there's an off-topic forum filled with such people who have nothing better to do with their lives than to mess with other people. This is supposed to be a game between people who treat each other friendly and respectfully and who play for fun, not to mess with others.

My post was meant as a reminder and those who feel it concerns them know how to interprete my words.

'Nuff said.

[proviisori]

Originally posted by Aidun
It is not blackmail. How can I destroy the game on my own by not taking part?

Aidun, I guess Zoid was talking about this:

Originally posted by Aidun

I will let people here know in advance, and I hope there are others with me, that if this game becomes such a vicious contest, I will not play and I call on others to do the same.

So I see only one solution: we continue with the long tradition of reliable PBEM games and the opposing people make some serious effort at solving the issues they have with one another.

Else there is only one option: a boycot of this game.

Choose whichever option you prefer.

Your solution: the game should be a PBEM

if it is pitboss, you'll not play and urge others to boycot it too

??

[Zoid]

Yeah, that was pretty much it...

[Aidun]

Well I don't mean it that extreme, to say that if this game is played by Pitboss I won't play or would urge others to do so. I see the misunderstanding now. I urge others not to play if the game becomes a vicious contest between people who feel they have to settle their disputes through a demogame, thereby ruining the game for the other people who take part in it. Those disputes can be over any issue and I sense that there are plenty.

But I do regard PBEM as the solution to end the argument between those in favor of a strict time enforcement regime with a short time per turn and those who want a long time per turn.

Let me know in all honesty what you think of this: PBEM with a 36 hours per turn timer. That will make the game go pretty fast under normal circumstances and will allow for teams to take more than those 36 hours in times of crisis or when RL problems happen. Seems a fair compromise to me.

[RobWorham]

Originally posted by Aidun

Let me know in all honesty what you think of this: PBEM with a 36 hours per turn timer. That will make the game go pretty fast under normal circumstances and will allow for teams to take more than those 36 hours in times of crisis or when RL problems happen. Seems a fair compromise to me.

I still think a more relaxed turn timer in PTBS would be a better solution!!

8 teams with up to 36 hours each to play their turn under PBEM would make a real slow game. At it's extreme it would take 12 days to play a turn, not including overruns from any teams...... Once the game bogs down, that is when we will lose the interest of our casual players who might one day become turn players, or at least more active players. I think it is human nature to take close to the turn time once the initial warrior move turns are over.....

I think it would be a far better compromise to extend the turn timer under PTBS to 60,72 (3 days), 84 or even 96 hours (4 days). At least then we'd guarantee two turns a week.........

[Nugog]

72 would get my support.

Remember that this is the MAXIMUM time per turn - if all teams play faster in the early days - then well and good.

[Hercules]

I am coming round to thinking of 60 hrs to allow for the later game complexity, but expecting that it would be quicker in the early years.

But can we all be clear on the mechanics for DG purposes.


As I understand it:

The turnplayer would join the game. See what has happened since the last turn, post a screen save or 3, and look for comments on moves and diplomatic options (if not already forseen). The turnplayer can save/pause to consult, based on available screenshots and his/her diplo report.

What doesn't happen is that teammates can also access the turn or save, explore diplo tech / resource trades and slider options and base micromanagement, themselves and then report back to team and turnplayer. Or can they? Of course it will show on civstats I presume.

[RobWorham]

The exact mechanics of each team turn depends entirely on each team's organisation.......

In Southern Cross, in the Warlords DG, we operate on a first come, first post policy. The first team member to see that a new turn is up goes to the game, takes screen shots, and posts them back to our private forum.

We then, as a team, make our suggestions on what to do regarding various aspects of the turn, including short, medium and long term strategy. Once we have a majority decision, whether straight away or after some discussion, one of us plays the turn in accordance to the majority decision.

We are fortunate in that we are all highly active in this game, we have all had highs and lows of activity, due to various RL reasons, but we have always had plenty of cover and have only missed one turn IIRC.......

What system you guys use in the Templars is a mater for you to sort out in your private forum, but I would suggest as loose a system as possible to ensure all are involved as much as desired.....

[IanDC]

Originally posted by Aidun
Let me know in all honesty what you think of this: PBEM with a 36 hours per turn timer. That will make the game go pretty fast under normal circumstances and will allow for teams to take more than those 36 hours in times of crisis or when RL problems happen. Seems a fair compromise to me.

It's still funeral pace with 8+ teams (12 days a turn as Rob pointed out) & with Pitboss you don't have the curse of PBEM - reloading.

[Whip[lash]

Some points directed to those favoring a long timer in PitBoss or doing PBEM.

PAL has been involved in at least 3 of the prior Demo games, maybe more.

What kills player interest?

First is the EPBM is tooooo slooooow. I know you guys think we are real-time MP players who lack patience for a long game; but really two turns per week is a snail's pace, especially in the beginning of the game.

What I have seen is the biggest downside of the PBEM is the reload cheat. At a critical point in the game the turnplayer can simply attack with 20% odds or open that hut and be able to repeat it again, again and again until the results are the most favorable. I have seen stack battles in C3C where three wounded units captured a city defended by three healthy units. I have seen a Great Leader generated at 16% odds. This cheat is undetectable in EPBM. The fact that this cheat is available ruins the game. Even if the turn player did not cheat he will be suspected of doing so which brings up feelings of "damn, we're screwed because team XXX cheated". This cheat cannot be pulled off in PitBoss.

Regarding the length of the timer, I believe there is a user written program available at civfanatics that allows the PitBoss timer to be adjusted anytime during the game. We could start off fast and gradually slow down as the game progresses. The timer changes could be resolved by majority vote of the teams.

PitBoss also makes it easier on the turn player as no screen shots are needed. Any teammate can log on to the game to see the current situation. Also, if the "designated turnplayer" has not made the turn while the timer is running short another teammate can do it.

I've been hosting a PitBoss 4v4v4v4 Demo game, we are currently at 1130AD using a 22 hour timer. There rarely is a screenshot posted in the team forum and it's rare that any team/player misses a turn due to a "short" timer.

[Hercules]

Originally posted by Whip[lash


Regarding the length of the timer, I believe there is a user written program available at civfanatics that allows the PitBoss timer to be adjusted anytime during the game. We could start off fast and gradually slow down as the game progresses. The timer changes could be resolved by majority vote of the teams.

PitBoss also makes it easier on the turn player as no screen shots are needed. Any teammate can log on to the game to see the current situation. Also, if the "designated turnplayer" has not made the turn while the timer is running short another teammate can do it.

Thank you that answers my question earlier re mechanics.

It should also contribute to resolving the turn time issue.

[Nugog]

Originally posted by RobWorham
but we have always had plenty of cover and have only missed one turn IIRC.......

[Nugog]

Originally posted by Whip[lash
Regarding the length of the timer, I believe there is a user written program available at civfanatics that allows the PitBoss timer to be adjusted anytime during the game. We could start off fast and gradually slow down as the game progresses. The timer changes could be resolved by majority vote of the teams.

Would this need to be loaded as a MOD by all turn players?

[Nugog]

Originally posted by Whip[lash
PitBoss also makes it easier on the turn player as no screen shots are needed. Any teammate can log on to the game to see the current situation. Also, if the "designated turnplayer" has not made the turn while the timer is running short another teammate can do it.

This really does depend on how your team operates.

RoC will, as much as possible, run on similar lines to Southern Cross.

Democratically.

So - we will be posting screens of the areas/things we are discussing. It just makes it easier. Ad as such we probably prefer a longer timer. Southern Cross usually plays fairly quickly - but sometimes we use most of the timer - depends on the situation.

[Zoid]

Originally posted by Nugog


Would this need to be loaded as a MOD by all turn players?

It must be a tweak to the Pitboss software surely?