Advanced Game 12 Disscussion Thread

[Nugog]

Advanced League Game 12 has closed for submissions. Please feel free to discuss your game in as much detail as you want. The more we talk, the more we can learn from each others successes and failures......

[Nugog]

It looked like pinchak might have grabbed all the spoils from this round until Shalkai nipped in right at the end of the submission period with an impressive space race victory to grab the top spot!! well done Shalkai, and unlucky pinchak!!!

1st : Shalkai : Won Space Race Victory - 1952AD - 6039 points / 46529 points

2nd : pinchak : Lost to Conquest - 2500BC - 73 points / 17706 points - LOST

Congratulations to all those who took part!!!

[RobWorham]

I can imagine that the after game write ups might be quite different this game, will be interesting to see the differences......

[Shalkai]

I know what the difference is...I still have very vivid memories of Game 9, where I suffered the same fate as Pinchak. I'll wait until I do a full writeup to go into details, but the barbarians were such a huge threat it drove my entire strategy from 3000BC on. My barbarian archer wounds still haven't healed from Game 9 - I sure won't forget what RB can do any time soon!

Huge amounts of empty space = LOTS of bad guys starting ~2560BC at Emperor. I finally located the edges of Monty's territory around 3120 BC. At 3000 BC, I had my two exploring warriors near his land. It was ~20 squares, 800 years, between our lands for more warriors to come and help. Rush with two? I don't think so. Plus, I remembered game 9. I sent EVERYBODY home, even my one surviving scout (to do fogbusting duty) at 3000 BC.

Once I had my fishing boat and worker done, I built a couple more warriors, then got started on the Great Wall about 2600. It only took about 12-14 turns to build it, because I chopped like mad.

Well, we built the Great Andean Wall, after a mere 5-6 battles (though there was a nice stack of 4 archers inbound....). After that, I just had to put out a few border guards to protect settlers and earn exp, and let the rest of the hordes go bother Monty.

Boy, they did, too. They razed his second city, and pinned him into a corner. I was able to expand down and partially wall him in with ~9 cities total, while he was only able to build ~4 during the same time.

Once again, raging barbarians + lots of open space = BIG trouble. I went the easy route this time and built the Great Wall, but with quechas you could just fight (a lot!) You have to be ready for them one way or the other, though, once you see all those dark, empty forests and hills...just waiting to breed savages....(shudder).

[RobWorham]

Can't wait until the full monty!!! Excuse the pun......

[Pinchak]

Ok, here is my fateful tale...

I decided in 4000BC that I was going to try the old quelcha rush (you can actually beat diety level doing this if the map is smaller).

The rush made sence in my mind, because even though the map was large size, it was listed as "Terra" in the poll thread. Large terra = standard high seas panagea until astronomy.

I planned on blasting my closest neighboors out of the water early, take their capitals, and use them to further perpetuate the onslaught of quelcha. Any survivors would hopefully be crippled, and the captured workers would make up for lost time from pumping out nothing but units.

Well, after awhile I began to wonder if I was the only civ! Then I found Monty. From the looks of the landmass (and still thinking this was a true terra setup) I actually starting to think that this game was a 1 on 1 with the possability that the Maya might be below Monty.

When I found him he only had his capital, and it only had two archers. I should have struck then with my 3 or 4 quelcha, but like a dumbass I waited to bring in most of my force. Well, right before I was going to attack with 6-7 quelcha he slaves the daylights out of his capital and windes up with 5 or 6 archers. I attack, and lose.

My frustration was soon relieved however when barbs ransacked my capital while I was paying too much attention in the south. GAME OVER.

When I saw the full map however I was shocked. I don't think I would have survived in the long run even if I did kill Monty and Pacal. Too much time and resorces would have been wasted to keep up with the comp on emperor level.

But hey, I still pulled a second place showing out of it.

[Shalkai]

All right, the Full Monty...Doom Of, that is, and Other Tales

Also known as the Saga of Shalkai the 12th

Part One:

The people wandered north and east, searching for the promised land. They didn't find it - they simply ran out of land. A cold arm of the northern ocean stopped any more travel to the east, and everyone knew that travel to the north would only find even icier lands. So the people settled in the valley where the tribal council met for the last time, and where there was some protection from the ever-cold winds. Thus was Teotihuacan founded.

The Incan Quechua warriors traveled south, to a nearby small tribe. This tribe knew the mountains well, and taught Masonry to our Quechua. A welcome gift - back in the capital, the elders began thinking of what might be done once there were more people to build things with the stone of the great mountains. For now, the people were trying to learn how to fish out in the nearby ocean, as the crabs were delicious when they could be caught. The Quechua continued exploring to the southeast. Time passed...

OK, out of narrative mode, or this would take for-EVER. Pre-game notes to self: Watch out for Raging Barbarians - think early Archery, bring back scouting warriors. Don't think Quechua Rush unless you find someone real close, real quick. Pottery early for terraces. Use rivers to the max to take benefits from Fin trait, plus lots of coastal cities. Industrious should get me a shot at a few wonders, even at Emperor. Forget early religions as usual at Emperor.

So, the start...pretty nice, actually. Wish I knew fishing. Plenty of food, lots of forest to chop, lots of hills to mine. I'm happy. Settle in place after quechua moves and doesn't see anything spectacular just over the hill. As mentioned, Que1 pops Masonry from that goody hut. First research is fishing - this will power research and growth, with two special resources available. Initial build is a warrior. I work a PH (1f 2h) to hurry the warrior along - I want the warrior out ASAP so I can build a fishing boat as soon as I learn the tech. Que1 wanders SE until he hits the coast, then turns south. Que2 heads SW from Teot (north looks unpromising in the extreme). After we learn fishing, mining is next on the list. After that, its BW, and Incan Researchers even get a boost from a random event while trying to learn that. First time I've ever gotten that so early in a game.

The explorer quechuas have a busy time. I don't remember the exact order, but after Masonry, it was something like Scout, Scout, 20g, Sailing, 40g, and finally, way west, 60g. One scout got eaten by a bear, but the other survived, and ended up doing fog-buster duty N of Teot for many centuries. With 2 scouts and 2 quechuas, I was able to map about 85% of "North America" by 3100 BC. Around then, I finally bumped into some green territory waaaay south of me. Ah. Monty's home turf at last - our scouts have been crisscrossing tracks for centuries. Hmm. My warriors wander that way, but there are no exposed workers, and I can't see his city square. Rush with 2 quechua? Um. Nah, he's got slavery, and would get at least one whip. I need my guys at home with the barbarians coming. About face, march. Monty can wait. There's 2,000 years worth of open land to fill in between us before we need to war. So, what to do? I've got the techs needed for lots of good wonders - 'Henge, Great Wall, Pyramids, GL, Moai. With 3000+ squares of land in fog out there between Monty and I, Great Wall looks really good. I decide to make that my anti-barbarian strategy. I've got Masonry, and really good research with one or two fish in production. I can probably found Judaism - and I need at least Poly to get Priest for Oracle. Let's go for Mono and Organized religion a little early. Usually I don't go for the early three religions, but usually I don't have early research this high, either.

Early Techs: (3975 BC - pop Masonry), 3775 - Fish, (3675 pop Sail), 3475 - Mine, 3025 - BW, [3000 decide to go defensive against RB, head for Mono, Great Wall, GLighthouse, Oracle], 2575 - Poly, 2025 - Mono (found Judaism in Teot).

The Raging Barbarians turned out to be not much of a problem...mostly because I was only vulnerable for about 16 turns. By 2600 I had about 4-5 quechuas getting fortified, and another in the queue. Once that last one was done, we began construction of the Great Wall, circa 2550. It was completed in 2225 BC. Between 2600 and 2225 I think about 5 archers and 2 warriors invaded my lands - all died, since my quechuas were fortified in either cities or hills, with one counterattack needed to protect my wheat farm. In 2275 a very nasty looking stack of 4 archers entered my lands and headed towards my capital, but the slavedrivers were ready. Many tribesmen from the surrounding villages perished, but the archer army turned south in dismay once the Great Incan Wall was complete! I wonder if that stack was what took out Monty's second city? After the GW was up, it was time for a settler...finally. It was fun watching the black units ignore me and head south to visit one of my favorite buds. Heheheheheh.

Tiwaniku was founded in 1950 - a bit late, but worth it - safe under the shadow of the GW. It was SE of Teot, on the coastal plains, a future home for Moai. Macchu Piccu was next, in 1350, right in between the first two, sited to get cows and horses. Ollantictactoe was built in 455, just SW of Tiwa, and finally, Corihackcough was the last early city, founded in 140BC way off to the SW, starting to drive territory towards Monty. in 975BC the Great Lighthouse was built for the mariners of Teotihuacan. It was a bit late, but I managed to hack out the Oracle in 485 BC, and took Theology with it. My first GP, in 650 BC, was a Great Spy. Meh. Actually, I shouldn't complain. I got a lot of techs with espionage later on....

Techs between 2000BC and 1AD were: 1575 - AH (lots o cows), 1325 - Wheel, 1025 - Pot, 800 - Priest, 525 - Writ, 140 - CoL (+Conf found), and research Alpha for the new Millenium.....

All in all, a really good start at Emperor.

Part Two soon....

[RobWorham]

[Shalkai]

Part 2

OK, so maybe not so soon. Sorry, worked all weekend - too much broken stuff at work. The overtime is gonna be reeeeal good this week, but Game 13 may not get done. Anyway, I'll see if I can take the tale to 1500AD or so on my breaks today.

So, when last we left off, the scholars were scratching things on clay and wood. By 115AD, they'd had enough committees, conferences, and contreteps to finally settle on a standard, and the Incans had an Alphabet. The Aztecs and Mayans were mighty interested in trading knowledge, now that it could be recorded, and I was happy to oblige.

The next chunk of techs (trades in parens)
115AD-Alpha, (Math), (Hunt), (Iron) 175-Med, (Arch), 475-MCast.

Metalcasting meant Colossus, so I tried for that...and got it, in 700AD. I also started Pyramids, but only got a few courses laid before someone else built them in 715. There weren't any other wonders available that I was interested in, so regular stuff it was. There were obviously some advanced cultures and builders out there somewhere.

Other than that, I was expanding up to ~10 cities, sited to hem in Monty and claim as much of North America as I could. I was also building axemen, and eventually a few HA, for the inevitable war with Monty. Sure enough, in 430 the horns sound...but no, he's attacking the Mayans. Silly Monty. He's got all of 5 cities - only 3 > size 2 - and he's attacking somebody well over twice his size. There's Aggressive AI, and then there's Montezuma....

The next major thing to shoot for was Great Library. So, tech on: 775-HBR, 870-Aesth, 930-Lit, 1010-Const, 1040-Comp, 1150-Calen, (1170-Mach) 1280-CivSv, 1375-Optic, 1435-Paper, 1465-Drama.

I learned Lit and started the GL, but it was built far away just a few turns after I started. RATS! I like books. Monty makes peace with Pacal in 890, so I keep a close eye on him...yup, there's a stack moving my way about 1020. He DoWs me in 1030 and takes Vilcabamba, which was right on the border. My garrison takes out most of his stack, but he wins. No big. It will focus his energies while I take the cities I want from HIM. I recapture my city, and take two of his, before asking for peace (and his conversion to Judaism) in 1160. So, Monty is back down to ~ 5 cities, but does that stop him? No! He's back charging at Pacal again in 1220. Again, fine. I'm building/converting macemen in preparation for taking Monty out once and for all. This psycho has to go. 1275 - I DoW Monty; 1305 - capture his capital. It takes me another 16 turns to mop up the rest of the Aztec maniacs, but they are finally under control in 1385.

There was some thought of keeping Monty as a vassal, but I decided not to. His major city sites were just too nice; he would have contributed nothing to research; and he would have pissed other AIs off if he was my vassal. So, they became Azteco-Incans. I then planted one city in the jungle south of Monty's old capital, as a buffer to Pacal, and I had ALL of North America to play with. About a third of it was still empty, for that matter.

What then? Time to build cities, caravels, cottages, and the economy. Some caravels headed east about 1400. Well..bad news. Someone discovered Liberalism in 1425. I hadn't even learned about Drama yet. Settlers spread out to the good spots, but I didn't spam them, so I wouldn't kill my economy. Around 1475, my first caravel discovered the "Old World", and I started making new acquaintences.

A Great Prophet finally appeared in Tiwaniku in 1385, and founded the Temple of Solomon. That about takes us through to ~1500, so I'll leave the story there for now.

[RobWorham]