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**Swiss Pauli** · March 16, 2008, 13:33

Was a well set up scenario. I enjoyed the fact that I had to get Biology to really get going culture-wise, rather than the ultra-early tech shutdown of many a culture game.

Not sure if the ranking system works as I can't see how a peaceful win will ever outrank a military one...

**Nugog** · March 16, 2008, 16:49

Swiss Pauli

This is one of the reasons that for some games we will only accept certain victory types.

But check out the Intermediate thread for game 10 - CharonJr scored a diplo victory in the 1300's!

**Swiss Pauli** · March 16, 2008, 17:45

I've not looked at the thread, but I had forgotten about Apo diplo. However, 1300 seems quite late enough to be outscored by a decent conquest win. In any event, it seems you admit the ranking is as unbalanced as it is 'in game', so I'll pay it the same attention as I do to game score

:

**Shalkai** · March 31, 2008, 20:43

Shalkai's Game 10

OK, time to catch up on some discussions. Game 10 was certainly interesting! Hatshepsut has been one of the leaders I like since orig CIV(Creative and War Chariots makes for nice starts) so that part was fine. Boreal was new, so I took Nugog's advice and played 2 test scenarios for 150-200 turns before I downloaded the A10 start. Boreal is certainly interesting..lots of food, but not much else. I ended up with lots of specialists, like everyone else I'm sure. The test starts taught me to look for the gems to power my early economy.

So, on to the Advanced 10 setup. No Raging Barbarians - good! Tons of archers in all those trees would NOT have been fun. My initial thoughts were to keep an eye out for a cultural victory (Creative gives that small bonus there); also both Civ traits gave cheap Culture buildings. Finding the horses (AH) should be a priority, but (knowing Rob and Nugog) I'd bet money that there would be no easy access, and no great chance for a war-chariot rush. At Emperor, Romans shouldn't get easy Iron, and Egyptians shouldn't get easy horses. Not that I'd mind, since I'm a builder at heart. Notes to self - Use specialists. Ignore early religions; go for CoL for courthouses and possible Confucion...ianism. Whatever. And finally, try to keep the power rating out of the dumps - always a big problem for me.

On to the actual game. Start position was a tough decision. I moved the warrior 1 NW onto the nearest hill, but no help - he didn't see anything of note. So...Move east and get deer plus gems, or settle in place and hope there are hidden goodies? I decided to settle in place. There was still a lot of black in the fat cross, and there HAD to be more than just one deer there. This game, losing two turns would gain me a gem, but no Plain Hills, can't tell what else I'd gain/lose. Not worth it for me. I *hate* losing several turns at the start. I'll only move if I know I'll be making serious extra production of something to make up for those lost turns of the palace. So, found in place, and figure to settle a new city for those gems.

Starting spot turns out OK. Three food specials. That's fine for whipping out stuff quick. I start on a Worker (scout will be my first actual build, but I need Hunting) and research Hunting.My warrior explorer runs into mountains to the NW, so he keeps going west, up the Great River. After I learn Hunting, I make a band of scouts, and they head NE until they run into huge fields of open ice, then they turn back SE, then E. The explorers don't find a whole lot. They do run into a tribal village in 3760 that specializes in Fishing (With hardly a lake in sight? Yah. That explains why you're a village, and we're a city.) Another couple of tribes give gifts of gold, and one teaches the scout some survival tricks. The scout bumps into explorers from Elizabeth and Victoria, and finally spies an edge of Liz's holdings around 1800 BC. That's it. Things seem way emptier than the average map, either regular or my earlier Boreal tests.

The first couple of techs are easy - about all that Boreal seems to have in quantity is deer, wheat, and gems. Hatty already has Agri and Wheel, so we just need hunting and mining for the other common resources, and BW for taking care of trees and all the other BW goodies. Hunting was my first (researched) tech, followed by Mine and BW. Initial builds were (start worker)-Scout-Worker. That meant I had my worker out making camps before 3000BC. With two camps built quickly, Thebes could grow quickly, and slaves helped round out a settler group in 2640BC. They founded Memphis in 2520, 6 west and 1 south of Thebes, sited to get two gems plus wheat. Heliopolis was founded in 1600BC, 5 east and 1 north of Thebes, sited to get two deer plus that original Gems hill spotted back at the beginning of history.

Here's my tech research path in detail thru 1 AD: (pop Fish)-Hunt-Mine-BW-Pott-AH-Arch-Write-Alph-(trades for Myst,Med,IW,Priest)-[Oracle 725BC-take MCast]-CoL 650BC (convert Conf)-(trades for Poly,Sail,Mason)-Mono-(trade Monarch)-Curr-(trade Math). Decision points - I took Pottery ahead of AH for the granaries. Then AH to get the most from the "fuzzy deer" up the river, then Archery for defense. Writing next for borders and Library, of course. Both Liz and Vic were likely trading partners, so I decided to do Alphabet before the CoL beeline. Getting Alpha makes getting the Oracle chancier, but in some games it works well. This time, research was doing good with all the gems-fueled commerce, so I went for it. As you can see from the 9 trades I did between getting Alpha in 1040BC and that Math trade in 100BC, it paid off quite well.

After Alpha, it was beeline to Priest (for Oracle build) and CoL (for a religion found and courthouses). I did all the Priest techs thrutrades, which mostly paid for Alpha right there. Alpha was ~23 turns. Myst-Med-Priest would have been about 15. Net result? I get started on the Oracle about 10 turns later than if I beelined it. That's OK, though - I have workers ready, and with two chops in my capital, it only takes about 10 turns to build it. I was tempted to delay the Oracle build three turns, until after I'd learned CoL, but 725BC was already late. 650BC for the Oracle on Emperor would have been asking for a big bag of coins and a "nice try" trophy. Oracle=Metal Casting, then I wait nervously to see if I'll found Confucianism (phew! I do.)

After this, general goals are boost commerce, and an attempt at the GL. So, tech priorities are Lit and Civil Service.

Tech research detail 1AD-1000AD: Aesth-Lit-HBRid-(Const)-CivSv-Paper-Cal-(Feud)-(Mach). (parens mark trades or partial research then trade) I continued to trade every time I could. Vic had CS less than ten turns before I did; Bureaucracy plus Representation put me in a good spot for the early game.

I built the Kong Miao in 500BC, and sent a few missionaries to Elizabeth (who was Hindu) and converted her in 150AD. She switched back after
a bit, but finally saw the light for good in 660AD. There was one friend! (for ~1000 years or so) After the Oracle, I threw together the Great Wall in 350BC (guess no one else wanted it?), built the Pyramids in 425AD, the Parthenon in 520AD, and finally the GL in 660AD. Quite a nice selection of early Wonders. Having marble from my 4th city helped with some of those. GW and Pyramids were "if I get 'em", Parthenon and GL got some lumber love.

Next goals - good wonders, balanced growth, and head towards Liberalism. My power graph was really starting to lag, so military forces finally started to get a little love with longbow upgrades and some new builds of assorted units.

Tech research detail 1000AD-1600AD: Theo-DivR+found Islam-Guild-Drama-Phil-(Bank)-(Music)-Eng-(Optic)-Edu-Lib->[Astro]-Print-(Econ). I was first to Paper and DivR, so that gave me the inside track on Sankore, Minaret, and Versailles. The workers chopped vigorously, and I got all three between 1100 and 1360. There definitely could have been some rearranging of the tech choices here. After I beelined DivR, you can see I didn't go straight to Lib. Pretty close, but with a few (mainly military) detours. I'd be interested to get some feedback about my research path in this era.

A GP built the Masjid in 1140, and I started spreading Islam widely in my lands around 1250. Isabella sent a few missionaries to new cities, so Hinduism began spreading as a third religion everywhere around 1450. Isa had the AP, so Hindu buildings were good for extra hammers. My Conf buildings gave extra gold and research thanks to Sankore and Minaret, so I'd snagged all the building bennys. I made friends with Isa by joining in her war on Boudicca in 1370. I didn't do much in the war...just built up one decent stack, walked thru Cat's land, and took one Boud border city with a fish resource.

Religion-wise, Boudicca was "Boud"-ist; Isabella founded Hinduism and had Victoria and Catherine in her sway, and I had Confucianism with Elizabeth following along. I was spreading religions widely in my cities, thinking of doing Free Religion at some point. Boud was the odd lady out, with her aggressive ways and different religion. I was liked by Liz and Cat, and got the occasional trade in with Isa and Vic. Liz and Cat started fighting, though, and I lost points with Liz by staying neutral.

Finally in 1630, Liz switched to Free Religion. Hmph, no more religious partner. Fine, I'll go get THREE of them! So in 1635 Hinduism becomes the Egyptian state religion. I already had Hindu in 3/4 or more of my cities, so finishing the spread didn't take long. That got Isa and Cat very happy with me, and Vic a little more tolerant. Thank goodness for spiritual, and no revolution!

I'd just gotten done with the BIG civic switch around 1600AD - UnivSuff, Free Speech, Serfdom (didn't need Slavery or Caste), and Free Market . Religious civic was already at Pacifism, and actually stayed there the rest of the game despite my plans to use Free Religion at some point. Emancipation was still about 200 years off.

Techs from 1600-1800 started with Gunp and ended with Steel and ScMth. I wasn't the first to Democracy (think Vic did that?) but I was only a few turns behind, plus one GE saved up and another appearing not long afterwards. Statue of Liberty is one of my "max-effort" wonders, and I had it 12 turns after learning Demo.

Planning for the final end-game started here. Dom/Conq wasn't going to happen - Isa was going to be doing the dominating, not me. I was 4th-5th in strength, depending on who'd been fighting wars. Liz and Vic both had military tech better than mine, and empires about my size. Boud was too far away, and Cat was my only real possible military target - but her close cities weren't too good. Cultural looked possible, especially if I could get a good Culture Corp or three. I'd actually carefully scouted out the map and located the 5 seafood resources in case I could get Sid's - three were already under my control. 6-8 Culture per city for Sid's wouldn't be much compared to a normal game, but it wasn't bad. Problem was, Isa had NICE cities, and her three best had about 50% more culture than my 3 best. Still, doable. Culture or Space looked good. Keeping out of wars was gonna be the problem.

So...1800 on. Keep in the tech race, upgrade Mil through the massive tech changes, and stay friends with everyone I possibly can. That's the plan. Cat and Liz keep picking on each other, which is fine with me. I end up the eventual winner, as my city's culture eventually overwhelms a few of the ones they've traded back and forth. Liz keeps getting madder at me, though, which isn't good. Her spies are doing bad things. Her army could, too, with all those redcoats, if she wanted to (she is #2 in Power).

About 1816, Isa finally finishes her feud with Boud by making Boud a vassal. Isa is a mil powerhouse with experienced units and uber Spanish siege weapons. In 1844, Isa goes after Vic. 1852 sees Isa pop in for a visit, and propose a Permanent Alliance between us. Well now....

I've almost never used PA. The two empires are almost treated as one, but the eventual score gets split between them, or something like that. PA will get a decent score, but not a great one. However...there are a lot of advantages to consider for PA in this case. I let the screen sit there for a good 5 minutes or more while I walk around and consider.

Liz is currently annoyed, and almost 50% stronger in power than I am. I'm 5th of 6 on the power graph. Isa is well over 50% stronger, and (obviously) friendly. If there's a PA, that removes my most likely competition from either a space or a cultural victory. Isa is the only one with the numbers to challenge me either way. It would also remove any chance that she'd attack me, and would mean that Liz, my immediate threat, would probably never attack Hatty/Isa+Boud. Plus, between us, we've got the power to smash Vic instantly, then Cat or Liz soon. A PA means the game could be over in 30-50 turns, instead of 100-150. Saving time is always good. Is that worth splitting the score? Decision time.

I accept. Lots of positives, lots of risk removal, and cuts probably 2 hours off the game time. It doesn't matter how unhappy Liz gets now, or how much either England techs.

It takes us 11 more turns to take enough of Vic's cities to make her our Vassal #2, in 1878. That only leaves Liz and Cat free, and they hate each other. We only need about 7% more land controlled to win.

There's peace for a generation, but I'm not thinking peaceful thoughts. I choose Cat to be the "lucky" one to join the winning team, whether she wants to or not. I DoW in 1904, starting the last war. Liz hates us all, so she does nothing. Cat and I fight some big battles, while Isa and Vic move up troops. By 1910, we're taking cities basically every turn. In 1916, Cat bows to the inevitable, and becomes our vassal. A couple of the first conquests come out of unrest, and when the census-takers get done, Isa/Hatty control almost 70% of the Cold Lands. Fini.

Tech after 1800 went from RepPt to about Medicine. I was trying for the right GP to found Sid's or CrCon just for the heck of it, but didn't get either started. Even if I'd had 'em, they would have been too late to be meaningful. CrCon would have run for only 15 turns even if I'd had a GE ready to go. Liz was always up there near/at the top in tech with her Financial bonus.

Interesting things about this game...narrow range of resources really changes things, that's one. Anothe was the disparity in Capital sites. One AI (Boudicca) had a site like mine (3 food resources). The others had very good (5 resources) to great (8 resources) Cap sites. Madrid, with 8 food resources, was a SE dream.

Speaking of SE, I didn't run a pure SE economy. I ran lots of specialists, but had some cottages around the cities with several food resources. I had less cottages than normal, and cities were in general smaller (mostly due to lower happy/health caps from fewer resource types).

Spiritual was a boon in this game. I used it a lot by switching civics probably twice as much as normal, plus switching religions with impunity when needed.

This would be an interesting game to come back to a save, and build again as a pure SE for practice. My normal play-style doesn't see me make very many cities that are completely specialized, like a pure GP-pump. I end up with, um, specialized but not maximized cities, I'd guess would be the best description. I'll maximize things pretty well with wonders, but nowhere near as well as I see some people do in the threads. I'm reacting too much, I think, to plan out 300-400 turns like some of you are.

All right, enough for Game 10.

Shalkai

**RobWorham** · April 1, 2008, 02:19

Great write up!!!

Truly an epic!!!!

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