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  • #16
    I typically play huge map, marathon speed, 16 opponents, normal AI with no barbarians (I am a builder at heart.) So this was going to be a different set up for me. As I went along the game felt like it was going at a very fast pace. I also wasn't keeping notes as I went along so a lot of the details I have pulled from the replay.

    I planned from the beginning to go for a Cultural victory. With the starting stone, World Wonders would hopefully play a significant part. The first three cities would be the cultural goals. Then I would need at least 9 total cities so each of the core 3 could have a "cathedral" for each religion. Music was going to be a key tech for cathedrals and the Sistine Chapel.

    Goal 1 was of course survival. With barbarians and aggressive AI, I was being careful.

    Athens went up in 4000BC. Defense and exploration went first along with trying to grab some wonders. Stonehenge came along in 2000BC and the Great Wall in 1720BC. Once I determined it was just me and England on a relatively small space it was land grab time: Sparta 1200BC, Corinth 725BC, Thebes 375BC, and Argos in 50BC. When England plopped down Canterbury 2 turns before I got to that area, I sent that final settler to found Knossos in 600AD on the Eastern most tip of the island on the peninsula. The plan was for Maori Statues to go there to eventually make it a good city. I eventually planted Mycenae in 1390AD on the SW corner of the island to bring me to 7 cities.

    When the island was effectively full in the early ADs I switched to a two part approach. Building up those Wonders and preparing for the eventual war with England. Wonder history went as follows: Athens-Statue of Zeus 720 AD, Sparta-Great Lighthouse 740AD, Corith Shwedagon Paya 740AD, Sparta-Colossus 980AD, Corinth-Chichen Itza 980AD, Athens-National Epic 1510AD, Corinth-Sistine Chapel 1555AD, Corinth-Versailles 1720AD.

    England never liked me much. I got very little chance to trade techs with him. Explorations was also therefore a goal. I was first to circumnavigate in 1530AD. Still nobody really liked me much so got very little chance to trade techs. Maybe I was just being a little paranoid. Most offers were poor, and as I was behind overall I didn't want to give away those areas in which I was ahead technologically for little return. Another problem I was facing in the Middle Ages was that no religions had been founded our the island. That would cause problems in trying to create those +50% culture cathedrals. I did grab Divine Right and Islam in 1525AD. It was founded in Thebes. I was saving a Great Prophet so the Masjid al-Haram went up in 1535AD.

    Now the Cold War with England started heating up. I could see him building up and I was waiting for him to pounce. At this point my military tech was a bit behind so I started racing for Rifling. I built the best units I could and put up the Heroic Epic in Corinth in 1834AD. When the war with England happened I wanted to take the whole island. The only war I started was declaring war on the Zulu in 1645AD in an attempt to curry favor with Carthage. As soon as I declared Carthage made peace. Shaka did not have Astronomy so this "war" ended uneventfully in 1725AD.

    The dam finally broke when England attacked me in 1755AD. I was only a few turns away from Rifling. I was able to repel the first huge onslaught against Thebes by shifting forces over and performing some upgrades. I was okay when the second push came. I started shifting from defense to offense. Production was just riflemen and trebuchets. York fell in 1832AD. Then Sumeria had to stick their nose into things declaring war on England in 1844AD. I captured London in 1850AD. Gilgamesh captured Nottingham on the Northern tip of the island in 1852AD. I then captured Hastings in 1856AD and finished off England by capturing Canterbury in 1872AD.

    This war had one big benefit and one big failure. The big failure was now having a big Sumerian stack of cavalry, cannons and riflemen on the island. The big benefit (aside of course from controlling almost the entire island) was that Catherine had sent two missionaries to London shortly before the attack. There were Jews and Hindus in London. Things were looking up.

    Pressure was present in many areas. It was just going to be a matter of time before more war visited me. I still needed to catch up on military research. I pushed on to Assmebly Line so I would have the solid land defense of Infantry. I was a bit behind on naval tech so anyone would be able to land at will. I needed to spread two religions to nine cities to get Jewish Synagogues, Hindu Mandirs, and Monastaries in the core 3 cities. I also wanted to push toward Combustion for Creatve Construction and Mass Media for Civilized Jewelers.

    The long endgame began in 1905AD when Russia attacked me. It was a small landing so I was able to repel the invaders. I made peace with Catherine in 1910AD. Then Sumeria attacked in 1909AD. They pushed South and captured London in 1913AD. I recaptured London in 1918AD and pushed Gilgamesh off the island by capturing Nottingham in 1921AD. Meanwhile Sumeria vassalized Carthage in 1920AD so they joined the fray. War continued for the remainder of the game. Russia attacked me again from 1944-1956AD. The Dutch joined in between 1949-1953AD. Russia again from 2003-2009AD. The Zulu jumped on board from 2011AD. I stayed at war with Sumeria the whole time becasue they always insisted on London to make peace. I wasn't going to willingly let them back on the island.

    After war began Wonders came as follows: Thebes- Creative Constructions 1943AD, Thebes- Wall Street 1956AD, Sparta- Hermitage 1963AD, London(they had the Great Library)-Oxford University 1965AD, Sparta- Globe Theatre 1975AD, Thebes- Civilized Jewelers 1988AD, Athens- United Nations 1999AD, Sparta- Hollywood 2010AD

    Sumeria completed the Apollo program in 1977AD. They also bult the Manhatten Prohect in 1995AD. Sumeria was the big powerhouse. They could get the Space victory or if I lost one of my core three cities I was sunk. I had saved up three Great Artists for the final push. That way I would catch the AI by surprise with the victory so they couldn't make a final suicide push as I closed in on a cultural victory.

    I popped one Great Artist in Corinth and 2 in Sparta in 2016AD. Victory came in 2017AD. Final tally Athens 54998, Corinth 51906, Sparta 50411.
    Yes, negotiations could take some time.

    Comment


    • #17








































      Let your every day be full of joy, love the child that holds your hand, let your wife delight in your embrace, for these alone are the concerns of humanity.
      The BtS Pitboss Team Democracy Game has just started!!!
      Come and test your metal in the Apolyton Civ4 Beyond the Sword Tri-League Tournament
      Tohunga o kairākau of Southern Cross in the Warlords Pitboss Team Democracy Game, and Member of the Great Council and Curator of The Khan's Compendium for The Horde in the Civ4 Team Democracy Game

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by RobWorham











































        Indeed!

        I don't know why he saved my life. Maybe in those last moments he loved life more than he ever had before. Not just his life - anybody's life, my life. All he'd wanted were the same answers the rest of us want. Where did I come from? Where am I going? How long have I got? All I could do was sit there and watch him die.

        Comment


        • #19
          My first complete BtS game, and a very interesting one.

          Replayed several times with different strategies.

          The "right" one was early chariot rush to take London and whip

          off Churchill, 8 cities, lots of Wonders, total SE economy, good

          army, very strong navy, defensive wars (mostly on coast) and

          cultural victory at AD 1944.

          IMO, BtS is an excellent game, hardest of the Civ.

          Best regards,

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Vaugula
            Like jbp26 I also had some early trouble with Catherine but I decided that with the way colony costs (and inflation) work in BTS I wouldn't invade.
            With whole entire continent to myself, I had more than enough infrastructure to support vassals and cross continental colonies. And of course, I switched to state property ASAP so it was a non-issue.

            Comment


            • #21
              Settings:
              Prince difficulty
              Continents Map
              Standard Map size
              Normal Speed
              6 AI's
              Aggressive AI settings
              Normal Barbarians
              Random Events are turned off
              Player Civ: Pericles (Greek) - Philosophical, Creative Starts with Fishing, Hunting

              Victory Conditions!
              For this first game we will accept any victory.
              Rankings will be judged on a combination of the year of victory and final score.


              Initial Thoughts:

              Not used to Normal speed, usually play Epic. Will have to be more careful and deliberate with choices. Not used to Prince level, usually play Noble. Phi/Creative means lots of early culture to expand borders, don't have spirtual so will want to try to time civic changes with GA.

              Starting position is not coastal, so free tech of fishing is useless (initially). Have some stone to the southwest , 1 ring outside city radius (if settle at start position).

              Initial target: cultural or diplo victory. Try to get an early religion and spread it; get shrine up and running for commerce.


              Turn 1 -
              Move scout 1 to SE. Hmm... 2 gold mine sites a bit to the east. Should I take my initial settle over there? After all, the starting position appears to have quite a bit of desert to the west.

              No, let's settle inplace and get the second city built near those gold mine sites. Initial build, settler.

              Setting mining as the first tech - will need it for mines. Going to go for Judiasm as my founding faith.

              Popped 41 gold from hut


              Turn 3 - Popped 44 gold from hut (scout has been moving east)


              Turn 4 - Spot another good city site on the east coast. Gold mine site to the north east, cows to the southwest.


              Turn 6 - Mining done, now reasearch BW. 19 turns left on Settler.

              Turn 8 - Met an English (Churchill) warrior out for a stroll. Chose the way of peace.

              Turn 13 - Popped 111 gold from hut! That'll keep the science rate up for awhile!!

              Turn 14 - Someone founds Buddism

              Turn 16 - Our wandering scout has made it back west past Athens. Yes there is desert to the West, but also, the sea!
              Our scout defeats some wolves, gets renamed Wulvenbane.

              Turn 19 - Researched BW, switch to slavery, set research to Monotheism. Probably not likely to get it since I need 4 techs to get there. I think this is a bad choice, but I've already made it (hence the first A in After Action Report...)

              Turn 22 - Wulvenbane has complete his grand circuit of the starting position. Cows and Stone within the second ring of Athens, not much else. Not a great starting position really. 6 turns left on settler.

              Hmm... don't have tech for roads. Wonder if I should stick that in the research queue...

              Turn 25 - Someone founds Hinduism. Noticing that directly above the two gold spots (east of capital), there is some bronze and some rice. So, second city will be slightly north of my original estimate.

              Turn 26 - Settler done. Not much for a worker to do, so building warrior instead of worker in Athens.

              Turn 27 - Wulvenbane is lunch for some bears. Damn. Nothing else to explore with.

              Turn 28 - Researched Masonry, Sparta founded (Warrior into build queue).

              Turn 33 - Researched Mysticism, Sparta grows to cultural level 1, both cities still at pop 1

              Turn 36 - Both cities at size 2, Athens has 5 turns to warrior, Sparta 4

              Turn 40 - Spartan warrior created. Would like to go striaght into worker, but only 4 turns from pop 3. Let's build another warrior first and take the first one exploring.

              Turn 43 - Polytheism

              Turn 46 - Starting worker in sparta. 8 turns from Monotheism.

              Turn 48 - Starting worker in Athens.

              Turn 51 - London is above and slightly east of Sparta. Their land has tundra and snow around them, they will have to come south and engage us. Need to get our prime city spot on the eastern coast. Sending 1 of 2 Athenian warriors over there to secure the area.

              Turn 54 - Monothesim. Sparta is the founding city of Judaism. Converting the Greeks to become Greek Jews. Research The Wheel.

              Turn 57 - Hmmm... London has 2 silver mines up and running. I need to get my spartan gold mines up soon. Good thing Sparta just finished a worker. Starting on Settler now.

              Turn 58 - Athenian worker completes. Pumping a warrior out, then a settler to try to prevent English Encroachment. Hopefully my gold mines will offset maintenance costs.

              Turn 62 - Wheel, now going to Animal Husbandry

              Turn 65 - Gold mine 1 up and connected.

              Turn 68 - Animal Husbandry completed, we have horses right next to Athens. Researching Horseback riding.

              Turn 69 - Somebody builds Oracle, Athens and Sparta are connected.

              Turn 71 - Judaism spreads to Athens. 2nd Spartan Gold mine up, now going to hook up Copper.

              Turn 72 - England has a second city (not sure when it was founded) to London's South East, my North East.

              Turn 73 - Sparta completes settler starts on Great Wall

              Turn 74 - Athens hooks up cow, completes Settler (sending to the north and just slightly west), starts Barracks.

              Turn 76 - Corinth founded on eastern coast. Starting with Worker.

              Turn 77 - Thebes founded, starting worker. Now have a deficet economy of 9 gpt at 100% science with reserves of 115 gold.

              Turn 79 - Judaism has spread to York (English)

              Turn 80 - England converts to Judaism. And I need a something to drink...

              Ah, nothing like an ice-cold coca-cola to refresh you. You know those coke commericals around xmas time with the polar bears - man I love those ads.

              Okay, this is a good time to take stock of where the mighty Greek Empire is sitting:

              Athens and Sparta both have Judaism (as does York).

              Let's switch to Organized Religion and get The great wall done faster...

              Turn 81 - We have copper and horses hooked up. Need some axemen, excuse me, Phalanx and horsey archers now!

              Turn 82 - Researched Horseback Riding, now Agriculture. Corinth expands to ring 2, Thebes in 2 more turns. GW to complete in 10. Entered Classical Age.

              Turn 83 - Thebes expands. Athens compeltes Barracks. Trying to Stonehenge - probably won't get it, but will get some coin out of the attempt. It's only an 11 turn build. Maybe sooner if I hook up the stone...

              Turn 87 - Someone else gets Stonehenge. No worries. Let's pump some Phalanx in Athens.

              Turn 89 - Judaism spreads to London, have a warrior barb poking around between Corinth and Sparta.

              Turn 90 - Phalanx Number 1 produced in Athens. Will blood his spear on the barb...

              Turn 91 - Have stone hooked up in Athens, need to build road to Thebes. Road to Corinth almost done as well.

              Turn 92 - Spartan artisans have completed The Great Wall of Greece!

              Corinth completes worker, starting on Work Boat (nothing to work, but can explore)

              Turn 97 - Athens completes Jewish Temple (after another Phalanx) and starts Temple of Artemis. Corinthian gold mine completed.

              Turn 98 - Somebody else completed TofA.

              Turn 99 - Ouch, somewhere along the way, my science dropped to 40% to keep the empire afloat. Maybe need to reassign some workers to those gold mines?

              Turn 100 -
              Athens and Sparta are moving along nicely, but my other cities are laggards. 100 turns in and I am not feeling threatened but also do not feel threatening. Which means I am settling into a mid-game rut. Not good, Kinjy, not good.


              Turn 114 - Traded Priesthood and Horseback Riding for Alphabet (English)

              Turn 116 - Sparta attracts a Great Spy. What to do, what to do? We are on an island and already have the passive knowledge bonus against England. Build Scotland Yard in Athens I guess.

              Turn 118 - Some devious Athenians have built Scotland Yard and while their industrious brethern have completed the monument to my godhood and have named them The Pyramids of Pericles!

              Switching to Representation


              Turn 125 - 60% Science rate, I need more population and hammers to get anything going.

              Day 2, back in action...
              Still on Turn 125

              Looking at England, they have archers and warriors. I should really conquer them soon. Let's crank out more phalanx and horse archers and do that.

              Turn 126 - Researched Code of Laws and Sparta founds Confucianism.

              Turn 140 - England is 12 turns from Machinery and has acquired 2 axemen. Time to declare war. I only have a fighting force of 5 phalanx and 4 chariot, but a steady stream of reinforcements will be coming.

              Turn 141 - Took Hastings, but lost 3 chariots and 3 phalanx. Not good.

              Turn 146 - Someone build The Great Library

              Turn 150 - Science at 20% still running 6 gpt deficet.

              Turn 154 - Have a Great General, but 0% science, making 2 gpt, have lost most of my units and have taken no more cities.

              Turn 158 - Great Prophet

              Turn 160 - This war is a disaster. Giving up CoL for peace.

              Turn 166 - Thebes constructs the Chichen Itza

              Turn 175 - Entered Medieval Age, research Philo, about to found city on southern tip.


              Day 3

              Still Turn 175 - Argos founded

              Turn 184 - England build Statue of Zeus

              Turn 185 - England switched to Taoism

              Turn 186 - England declares war on us!!

              Turn 190 - Athens builds Ankor Wat

              Turn 201 - Science at 40%, 3 gpt deficet, still at war with England

              Turn 205 - Lost the city of Hastings

              Turn 210 - Captured Coventry - Holy City of Taoism

              Turn 215 - Recapured Hastings - Sued for peace. England gives us Archery and peace.

              Turn 225 - Science at 40%, 12 gpt deficet


              Turn 234 - England declares war on us!

              ****************'
              Played a bit longer, more back and forth with England. Other came calling from across the oceans, loaded with cavalry, which I couldn't repulse. Rather than dragging out, I retired.

              Comment


              • #22
                Let your every day be full of joy, love the child that holds your hand, let your wife delight in your embrace, for these alone are the concerns of humanity.
                The BtS Pitboss Team Democracy Game has just started!!!
                Come and test your metal in the Apolyton Civ4 Beyond the Sword Tri-League Tournament
                Tohunga o kairākau of Southern Cross in the Warlords Pitboss Team Democracy Game, and Member of the Great Council and Curator of The Khan's Compendium for The Horde in the Civ4 Team Democracy Game

                Comment


                • #23
                  First let me commend you Nugog and Rob, for all your hard work. Your commitment to the tournament must take copius amounts of time and energy, not to mention ongoing monitoring and postings. Your efforts are apprecated. Thanks!
                  While not to second guess your tournament decisions after such dedicated long hours of hard work I still would like to question the ranking process being used of raw score and date to determine standings. Caeru71 seems to have had a better game than us top three to me from where I sit. Here's my logic:

                  Raw game scores currently used as our standard (alongside of date of victory) generally only GOES UP over the course of the game (barring major collapses). So the longer one prolongs the game out the higher the raw score. Caeru won in 1918. Partially because of this early timeframe he was denied a higher raw score. I'm willing to bet his "normalized score" (listed on the screen) was higher than mine at each of our respective victories.

                  The "normalized score" balances date of final victory with the four elements achieved (pop, land, tech and wonders) and thus can go down or up from turn to turn with date pushing score down AND achievements in the current turn pushing score up. Mostly, tho, without exceptional achievements, it heads down the longer one plays. Thus it favors early victory while not ignoring taking total achievements .

                  Just my $.02

                  Overall both scenarios have been outstanding. I am learning by leaps and bounds. Amazing how tournament motivations make me slow down, more reflective and strategic and more thorough. Also to get sleep when I am just worn out, runnin down and starting to just push buttons. Know what I mean?

                  In the process my Civ game is improving....and again thanks to you two!
                  "Pain IS Scary!!!"
                  Jayne, from Firefly

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Saygame
                    First let me commend you Nugog and Rob, for all your hard work.


                    The "normalized score" balances date of final victory with the four elements achieved (pop, land, tech and wonders) and thus can go down or up from turn to turn with date pushing score down AND achievements in the current turn pushing score up. Mostly, tho, without exceptional achievements, it heads down the longer one plays. Thus it favors early victory while not ignoring taking total achievements .
                    Rob and I have been listening and discussing this too
                    and for games going forward - and the long term ranking system - we agree with you and others that have asked for this.

                    Just my $.02
                    I don't know why he saved my life. Maybe in those last moments he loved life more than he ever had before. Not just his life - anybody's life, my life. All he'd wanted were the same answers the rest of us want. Where did I come from? Where am I going? How long have I got? All I could do was sit there and watch him die.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by jbp26


                      With whole entire continent to myself, I had more than enough infrastructure to support vassals and cross continental colonies. And of course, I switched to state property ASAP so it was a non-issue.
                      Lucky for you, you were using 3.13. With 3.13 I would also have gone knocking on her door. With the previous version colony costs were not capped at distance and an island of 6 or so cities would be enough to start pulling your economy down so I can only imagine how bad it would have been if I had to take over half of her cities on her massive continent.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        good point, i forgot about that.

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