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Here's where we're at so far. This is the summary in the new format. Some of the latest suggestions didn't make it in because, well, the thread suddenly went kerplooey last week, dumping almost thirty suggestions into oblivion, but I got the rest.
Wonders of the World have become a part of the Civilization experience. Every player has his favorite, and there are entire strategies based upon them. They're not just about strategy, though. They're about imbuing the game with a sense of grandeur. And long-time Civilization players have quite a lot to say on the subject.
1. NEW FORMS OF WONDERS
Many players have suggested Wonder-like constructions which behave according to a different set of rules than the conventional Wonders of Civilization II, Call to Power and Alpha Centauri.
1.1) World's Greatest: By paying double the shield cost, a civilization can build a World's Greatest city improvement, which grants a small bonus for that city (double effect, as in +100% gold for marketplaces, 4 citizens happy for temples, etc.) Another civilization can pay double that to outdo the current World's Greatest. A temple = 20 shields, the first World's Greatest = 40, someone else spends 80 to outdo them, etc. (Ecce Homo)
1.1a) Pythagoras: Suggests limited timespan for world's greatest.
1.1b) kmj: Suggests "bidding" for world's greatest. Suggests world's greatest can go obsolete, i.e. World's Greatest Marketplace loses all bonuses upon discovery of Banking.
1.1c) Glacier: World's tallest building or longest bridge/tunnel could provide extra gold or happiness.
1.1d) Ecce Homo: World's Greatest Palace would be buildable throughout the game, would give diplomatic bonus and kill corruption.
1.1e) Q Cubed: Every World's Greatest would be effective until trumped by the new World's Greatest. Cost is not doubled but graded at 10% increases. 100, 110, 121, etc. Suggestions:
1.1e1) Tallest Building [+trade]
1.1e2) Longest Bridge [+trade] /must be built between cities across channel, river
1.1e3) Longest Tunnel [+trade] /must be built between cities across channel (~Chunnel), river, mountain, hill\
1.1e4) Greatest Places of Worship (temple, cathedral) [+happiness +trade]
1.1e5) Greatest Places of Trade (marketplace, bank, stock ex., supermarket)) [+trade]
1.1e6) Best (Places of Education (university, library, academy)) [+science]
1.1e7) Best Superhighways [+production *easier travel between cities]
1.1e8) Largest Harbor [+production +food +trade] /must be built in cities with access to inland seas or oceans\
1.1e9) Busiest Airport [+food +production +trade *easier travel between cities such as multiple flights from airports to this city]
1.1e10) Busiest Seaport [+food +production +trade] /must be built in cities with access to ocean
1.1e11) Best Hospital [+science +happiness]
1.1e12) Best (Factories) [+production +trade +science]
1.1e13) Best Arcologies [+trade +science +food +production] /must be built in cities with all city radii squares filled, or cities larger than 21 people\
1.1e14) Best (Entertainment Complexes (Stadium, Holotheaters, Movie Palaces)) [+trade +happiness]
1.1e15) Largest Corporation [+trade +science +production +energy]
1.1e16) Greatest Clock Tower [+trade +production]
1.1f) Flavor Dave: World's Greatests could either be useless or dominant. Balance is important.
1.1g) Theben: Disapproves of World's Greatest because it will end up a lot of wasted production for a minor effect.
1.2) Land Engineering Wonders: The Great Canal, for example, requiring explosives, modern engineers, allows trade routes. The Polders may reclaim land from the sea. A Great Wall which actually acts as a physical wall along the civilization's borders. (Diodorus)
1.2a) Ecce Homo: Canals, bridges, walls could be city improvements. The World's Greatest Canal could have effects resembling Great Canal.
1.2b) kmj: Land engineering Wonders limited by terrain: no Great Canal by water
1.2c) ml_4da3: Engineers should be able to modify rivers; perhaps a Wonder facilitates this.
1.3) Natural Wonders: Effects are conferred upon a civilization simply by having the wonder in its territory. (CyberShy)
1.3a) Taedott: Natural wonders are a resource, no benefits unless "improved."
1.3b) meowser: Natural wonders appear on map, or random on map (SMAC geographical features). Size: 1 tile, offer resource bonus, can be "improved" to provide tourism.
1.3c) J.DeMobray: Building Natural Wonders is ludicrous. What would Mt. Fuji do?
1.3d) Q Cubed: Suggestions:
1.3d1) Landmarks, randomly seeded by the fractal map generator; confers bonuses to all tiles within a city radius
1.3d2) Big Waterfalls {goes by Niagara, Angel, etc.} [+energy +trade +production]
1.3d3) Big Mountains {Kilimanjaro, McKinley, K2, etc.} [+energy +trade -population]
1.3d4) Big Canyons, Trenches {Grand Canyon, Great Rift Valley, etc.} [+energy +trade]
1.3d5) Big Volcanos {Krakatoa, Pinatubo, etc.} [+energy +production -population]
1.3d6) Big Reefs {Great Barrier Reef, etc.} [+trade +science +food]
1.3d7) Big Forests {Schwarzwald, etc.} [+trade +science +production]
1.3d8) Big Jungles {Amazon Rain Forest, etc.} [+trade +science +food +production]
1.3d9) Big Deserts {Sahara, etc.} [+trade +science -population]
1.3d10) Big Inland Freshwater Seas {Lake Victoria, etc.} [+trade +science +food]
1.3d11) Big Inland Saltwater Seas {Caspian Sea, etc.} [+trade +science]
1.3e) Flavor Dave: 2 trade arrows for a Natural Wonder square; looks impressive on the city screen (city view screen). Would make Explorer units more useful. Cities can't be built on Natural Wonder squares.
1.3f) Darkstarr: I don't see anything wrong with a Natural Wonder. There will probably be volcanoes, meteor craters and other large geographical features.
1.4) Alternatives to Shield Production: Certain Wonders are not dependent upon shields (resources) to be built. Scientific Wonders built by beakers, Economic Wonders built by gold. (Ecce Homo)
1.4a) NotLikeTea: How about the first civilization to send a ship around the world automatically gains the "Magellan's Voyage" Wonder. Manhattan Project is accomplished using Research Beakers instead of Shields.
1.4b) Jimmy: agrees with Magellan's Voyage
1.4c) NotLikeTea: Luxuries could be used to build happiness Wonders.
1.4d) NotLikeTea: Rethinking his position because it will end up the rich getting richer. (more gold = more production for economic wonders)
1.4e) Darkstarr: All turn-based games with resources involve the rich getting richer. That's the way reality works, too. Players beat the computer because they manage their resources more intelligently.
1.5) Mini-Wonders: Suggests a huge number of wonders (rather than Wonders) with small effects, usually increased trade. Examples: Space Needle, Leaning Tower, etc. Rather than huge Wonders with sweeping effects like Pyramids, have countless small wonders with tiny, localized effects. (willko)
1.5a) Russell: suggests "mini-wonders" with small build costs.
1.5b) Theben: suggested mini-wonders a while back, double the cost; upon building, the player could choose a special bonus/effect for the mini-wonder (something small and reasonable); there would be a list of effects to choose from. Not all would be available to each building type. No two mini-wonders could have the exact same effects; therefore, there would be many possible mini-wonders per building type, but a finite amount.
1.5c) EnochF: I was thinking mini-wonders would provide only trade bonuses. They'd be things like the Washington Monument, the Space Needle, the Leaning Tower of Pisa, the Louvre, the Neuschwanstein Castle, that sort of thing. It wouldn't make sense to have two of the same mini-wonder in the same city if this is the case.
1.5d) Theben: No, the mini-wonder would be a temple or marketplace or library and count as that building, plus a couple extras, maybe +1 content or +1 morale to units built there. You'd get to name the wonder whatever you want, though the computer might suggest one or more names.
1.5e) Darkstarr: How about World's Fair wonder/event, hosting city gains gold for hosting the fair.
1.6) National Special Projects: "National Special Projects" is the general category, of which Wonders are a subset. Wonders are unique NSP's, but certain NSP's would be rebuildable. Certain Wonders or NSP's could not be built without "prerequisite" NSP's. (Darkstarr)
1.6a) Q Cubed: As opposed to Wonders, National Projects can be built by more than one civilization, though the costs are roughly equivalent. High maintenance and weaker effects than Wonders, typically.
1.6b) EnochF: Tends to think that early Wonders should remain Wonders, and NSP's would be more appropriate in the mid- to late game.
1.6c) Transcend: Transcend: We need to separate wonders and secret projects. Wonders must have a physical form such as buildings, canals, etc. Secret projects are things like Manhattan, Apollo and Human Genome. Wonders can be destroyed and/or captured; secret projects cannot. Secret projects should not be built in a single city; they are property of a nation.
1.6d) Darkstarr: About prerequisites. Hoover Dam has to be built before anyone can built the NSP of National Hydroelectric Project
1.6e) Ecce Homo: Non-material achievements that are researched like techs, but can only be researched once. Examples: Almagest, Emancipation Act, Darwin's Voyage.
1.6f) Jimmy: Secret projects should be secret. Other civs should not be notified when building begins.
1.6g) EnochF: Maybe you could have the option to build in secret at an increased shield cost, or you sacrifice the ability to boost production with caravans.
1.6h) Theben: I don't know about that. A competent spy network should manage to discover something is going on. Unless you've never met the building civ.
1.6i) Andy B: Maybe a wonder like KGB could make your major projects secret from all other civs.
Many people seem to like the concept of the World's Greatest and have contributed their own set or subset of rules to govern their use. I tend to think that World's Greatests would be most useful, and least realistic, in the early game, such as with the World's Greatest Palace and Marketplace. Many people have made the suggestion that the computer should allow the player to name the World's Greatest upon completion. (Of course, the computer will have a number of appropriate suggestions, names which the AI will use.) As Eggman remarked, "Yes, every city has a temple, but there is (or was) only one Temple of Artemis at Ephesus. There are plenty of clock towers, but only one Big Ben. Everyone has a museum, but there is only one Louvre."
The concept of National Special Projects probably stems from Wonders such as Women's Suffrage, Contraception, and other such things that would not ordinarily be limited to one nation. Thus, these Projects follow most of the rules that currently govern Wonders, i.e. their construction is "announced" to all players, they provide Wonder-like effects; however, they can be built once by each civilization upon reaching the necessary advance. Certain Projects and Wonders may require an advance and an NSP to be built. (However, no NSP would require a Wonder to be built, only an NSP; thus, no NSP would be limited to one nation.)
Natural Wonders is, to me, in a category separate from all the other Wonders. Essentially, it is a slightly altered form of the "landmarks" in Alpha Centauri. The "Earth map" of Civilization III would include a number of Natural Wonders in the correct spot, and the square(s) containing the Wonders would provide a bonus to trade or production (which might be amplified by certain advances later on).
2. NEW RULES FOR WONDERS
Many players wish to keep the basic system for building Wonders that has existed in Civilization II and carried on to Call to Power. However, they wish to "tweak" the rules slightly, either in the name of realism or competitive gameplay or something else. Here are some of the changes to the current rules.
2.1) Disallowing "Races to Build": No two cities in one civilization can build the same wonder at the same time. (meowser)
2.1a) CyberShy: No races allowed at all.
2.1b) kmj: Races between two civilizations should be discouraged but not disallowed by the game. A message appears, such as, "Sir, the Egyptians are believed to be working on a similar project. Shall we continue?"
2.1c) SnowFire: Disallowing switching production would severely handicap the AI. A player can always buy the wonder at the last minute, leaving the computer with a great deal of wasted production.
2.1d) ErikNYC: Left-over production could be converted into trade, food, science, or some other variable related to the Wonder being constructed.
2.1e) Stefu: Don't disallow races. Disallow rush-building Wonders. This would make races more interesting. (Trying various ways of cranking up production).
2.1f) NotLikeTea: Don't disallow rush-building Wonders. Limit it. Allow 10% rush-building per turn at a high cost.
2.1g) Jimmy: Disallow switching production. How can Pyramid builders suddenly start building Leonardo's Workshop?
2.1h) Theben: Do not allow civs to continue building Wonders that are already built; they can "upgrade" a city improvement to a mini-wonder or world's greatest, or can build mini-wonder/world's greatest building from scratch.
2.2) Visible Wonders: Certain Wonders would appear in the city radius as impressive graphics. They would not confer any bonus to the worker on that square. (EnochF)
2.2a) meowser: Visible wonders should be vulnerable to pillage (without direct assault on the city).
2.2b) Ecce Homo: All Wonders should be visible. If it's not visible, it's not a Wonder (Women's Suffrage, Internet, Emancipation Act are thus disallowed)
2.3) Gradual Wonder Obsolescence: Wonders should not cease all effects on obsolescence, but gradually "phase out" over a few turns. (Zorloc)
2.3a) Zakalwe: Suggests something similar for captured wonders. Effects do not take effect immediately.
2.3b) kmj: No advance should make more than one Wonder obsolete.
2.3c) Russell: An advance discovered by a faraway civilization should not make your wonder go obsolete. This should only happen when you've encountered the civilization directly.
2.3d) Ecce Homo: Wonders should not "go obsolete." They should become irrelevant. Examples: Great Library will only give Ancient or Medieval advances. Great Wall does not protect against gunpowder units. Thus, Great Wall will always protect against Legions, whether or not Metallurgy has been discovered.
2.4) Wonders as a Civilization-Wide Project: Wonders are not built on the level of the city at all. Instead of being a city project, they are built by the entire civilization, using X% of total production or some such thing. Wonders thus do not appear in cities but in a special "wonder screen." (meowser)
2.4a) Fugi the Great: Wonders built by engineers or terraformers rather than X% of production. Increase costs of Wonders.
2.4b) Eggman: Instead, have cities "funnel" their production into building the Wonder. Instead of having cities build caravans, which add to production, "eliminate the middleman." A city could dedicate its production (or a percentage) to building a Wonder.
2.5) Wonder Deterrents: Random negative effects for more powerful wonders. Leonardo's might leave a percentage of units not upgraded. Lighthouse has a chance to burn out each turn. (Ufa)
2.5a) EnochF: As an alternative to random effects, use constant negative effects instead. Increased pollution or corruption in the host city, slight happiness reduction for the civilization, high maintenance cost in gold, or something along those lines.
2.5b) EnochF: Example: if the Great Library is ever captured, your civilization may lose all the technology it provided.
2.5c) J.DeMobray: How about instead a Wonder that gives you a chance per turn for something positive to happen. West Point could grant veteran status to units within its city, or Tokyo Exchange could grant the city 10x gold.
2.5d) Q Cubed: That might be okay for world's greatest or mini-wonders, but not Wonder wonders.
2.5e) Matthew: Maybe building certain Wonders would preclude the building of other Wonders. Or perhaps certain Wonders would be less effective for larger civs or civs with more cities, to balance out ICS strategies.
2.5f) EnochF: Perhaps large maintenance costs for Wonders. Keep them low for early Wonders, maybe 8 or 10 gold per turn. Examples: Pyramids and Hanging Gardens: 1 shield + 10 gold. King Richard's: 3 food + 20 gold. Michelangelo's: 2 shields + 30 gold. Oracle: 5 gold. SETI: 4 shields + 50 gold. Adam Smith's: buildable only in cities w/bank, nullifies marketplace and bank in host city, cost 2 shields + 30 gold.
2.5g) Andy B: Wonders that cost money: no, no and no.
2.6) Re-buildable Wonders: Only if two rival civilizations are building the same wonder, the second civilization to complete the wonder receives a "compensation" bonus of happiness or gold. The first civilization receives the standard wonder effect. (meowser)
2.6a) Fugi the Great: Civs can build the same Wonder and call it something different.
2.6b) wheathin: Wonders should be only those things which are not reproducible; everything else is a city improvement of some kind, but mini-wonders could work as a middle step.
2.6c) paraclet: Favors off button, or that all civilizations should be able to build each Wonder once. Once a Wonder is built, all civilizations could build a corresponding "national project," i.e., Leonardo's equivalent would be National Academy of Technology.
2.6d) Flavor Dave: Wonders should be built only once. This incorporates important choices in the strategy of the game.
2.6e) Q Cubed: Multiple clones of a Wonder are a poor alternative to the "unfair advantage" of one civilization having dominion over one Wonder. A re-buildable Wonder wouldn't be a Wonder.
2.6f) Matthew: I don't like the idea of more than one civ building the same Wonder. Then it wouldn't be a Wonder.
2.7) Evolving Wonders Through the Ages: Wonder effects which change as the ages progress. Pyramids act as granary early on, then change to gold bonus. Olympic Games provide extra gold, cease to function in Renaissance, then increase happiness in later ages, etc. Aging wonders may incur higher and higher maintenance costs. (Eggman)
2.7a) EnochF: All obsolete wonders generate tourism gold.
2.7b) SnowFire: Aging wonders should not incur maintenance costs simply because they are obsolete. However, maintenance costs for certain Wonders may be feasible.
2.7c) EdCase: When a Wonder goes obsolete, adds 10% to income of the city.
2.7d) Depp: The game's more fun when Wonders never go obsolete.
2.8) Culture Specific Wonders: Certain Wonders are only constructible by certain civilizations. Which civilization can build which Wonder may be randomized at the beginning of the game. (meowser)
2.8a) kmj: Disagrees with cultural wonders, warns against "factions" rather than civilizations, which might work in SMAC but not in Civilization III.
2.8b) (Many disagreements)
2.9) Uncertainty of Wonder Effects: Effects of wonders should not be predefined. Effects of the Wonder should only become clear to the builder X number of years after it is built. (CyberShy)
2.10) Shared Wonder Effects in Alliance: Also suggested in the Diplomacy list. All civilizations allied with each other receive the effects of each other's Wonders. (meowser)
2.11) Cooperative Wonder Building: Certain limited Wonders could be jointly built by a conglomeration of nations. United Nations is an obvious choice. (meowser)
2.11a) Torando7: I like the idea of gaining the ability to combine your efforts with allied civs to build super-wonders, like the International Space Station. The bonus would apply only so long as you are allied.
2.11b) Maybe building the Unity, the ship bound for Alpha Centauri, should be limited to international construction. Or maybe not.
2.12) Name Your Own Wonder: Hoover Dam may be called Aswan or Three Gorges or London Dam. Forbidden City may be called Imperial Palace, Throne Hall of Persepolis, Palace of Versailles or Atlanta Palace. The Agency may be called FBI, CIA, KGB, KLA or KMJ Killer Squad. (kmj)
2.12a) Trachmyr: The game should suggest a few key names.
2.12b) Flavor Dave: Naming your own wonder would offset America-centrism.
2.13) Wonder Cost Affected by World Type: Certain wonders are more beneficial in certain worlds. Lighthouse and Magellan are more useful in watery worlds; Marco Polo for large worlds. Thus, they would cost more shields in such worlds and less in other worlds. (Theben)
2.14) Destroy Wonder: The spy ability to destroy a Wonder in an enemy city. In SMAC terminology, counts as an atrocity. (Stefu)
2.14a) Mo: Alternate idea. If a city containing a Wonder is destroyed, the Wonder will remain visible in one of the city squares (assumes Visible Wonders are implemented). Any civilization which builds a city near the wonder gains "part of its effects."
2.14b) meowser: Visible wonders should be vulnerable to pillage. (This is a suggestion made a while ago on the subject of "visible wonders.")
2.14c) Andy B: Why aren't Wonders destroyed when you nuke a city?
2.14d) Eggman: How about the option to rebuild a Wonder if it's destroyed. Perhaps only the original building civ could opt to rebuild, and it must be done within in a certain number of turns after its destruction or the Wonder is lost forever.
2.14e) Andy B: Or maybe you can only rebuild it after it's gone obsolete... and it becomes a tourist attraction.
2.15) Delayed Availability: Merely having researched the appropriate technology does not immediately allow the construction of the Wonder associated with that technology. There is a cumulative chance each turn that someone will "think up" the Wonder, making it available for your civilization to build. (Ufa)
2.15a) Harel: I've already suggested that a new technology, Architecture, would be required in order to build Wonders at all. Without applied knowledge of mathematics, engineering and construction, you can't build something so huge.
2.16) One Wonder Per City: As a way to hinder the "rich get richer" syndrome, limit cities to one active Wonder at a time. If City A builds Hanging Gardens, it cannot build another Wonder until HG goes obsolete, thus eliminating the "super city" strategy. Or tie it to population. Cities of pop 25+ can have two Wonders (New York has UN and SOL).
2.16a) Theben: I disagree. I like my super-science city. Turning off Wonders is challenge enough without arbitrary limits like this.
3. IMPLEMENTATION OF WONDERS
This is a tricky category. Some people want to tweak the way Wonders affect the game and the way in which we think about Wonders. For example:
3.1) Programmable Wonders: A long series of flags allows players to redefine current wonders and create new ones to a much larger extent. Any Wonders dropped from the final release of the game might still persist as possible game effects to be used by scenario and modpack designers. (EnochF)
3.2) Wonders Off Option: An option in the game menu to disallow all wonder effects (and even the ability to build wonders). Alternatively, an option to "tone down" wonders, maybe decrease effects by half wherever possible. (kmj)
3.2a) Ufa: A "modifier" for wonders, like Civilization II's modifier for barbarians
3.2b) Mark_Everson: Disallow wonders that count as an improvement in every city. Wonders that never go obsolete are unbalancing.
3.2c) Ecce Homo: Suggests Pyramid be city improvement, thus Great Pyramid = world's greatest
3.3) "Culture" Partly Defined by Wonders: Part of a larger system suggested in other forums. The Wonders a player builds help define a new game element called "culture," which may affect a civilization's war readiness, science, economy, government, even graphical representation on screen. A fairly radical reordering of traditional Civilization. Bears resemblance to "social engineering" as found in SMAC. (Trachmyr)
3.3a) Darkstarr: Special Projects could be mechanisms for adjusting social engineering.
3.4) Universal Wonder Effects: Growing out of Sieve Too's Internet Wonder. Many wonders provide benefits to all civilizations, i.e. the Olympic Games open to all who choose to participate, Wormhole Sensor, Apollo, Manhattan, etc. (Ecce Homo)
3.4a) willko: Disagrees. Wonders should have localizable benefits to the city they are built in (e.g., Lighthouse only functions at X distance maximum). Any wonder with a "universal" benefit should have a separate "non-universal" benefit, i.e. Manhattan Project also grants +25% science.
3.4b) Theben: I strongly believe the positive effects of wonders w/UB should slowly spread to other civs. Otherwise player has no incentive to build his/her own.
3.4c) Andy B: The Olympic Games could act as a peace and trade wonder. It could only function when the civs are at peace with each other.
3.4d) NotLikeTea: I don't think Olympic Games should be a peace wonder.
3.4e) Eggman: In times of war, the Olympics have been canceled. But countries have agreed to ceasefires so their athletes could compete (especially in ancient Greece). Maybe the Olympics could be an event that happens every 20 years or so, rather than a Wonder. A new city would host each time, providing some trade bonus, and whoever "wins" gets an "I Love the Leader" day in every city for one turn.
3.5) Eliminating Eurocentrism and Americacentrism: Consensus is that the Wonders are Eurocentric or Americacentric. There is a call for more international Wonders. Several are listed in the Suggested Wonders section. (too many to list)
3.5a) Areas for consideration: Russia has been passed over for Wonders. The Americas are under-represented, except for the United States, which is over-represented.
3.6) Eliminating Person-Based Wonders: Wonders such as Shakespeare's Theater would be eliminated. Instead, "Great Leader" units would pop up occasionally. (Bubba)
3.7) Seven Wonders per Age: Every age would have exactly seven Wonders (mrtemba)
Wonders of the World have become a part of the Civilization experience. Every player has his favorite, and there are entire strategies based upon them. They're not just about strategy, though. They're about imbuing the game with a sense of grandeur. And long-time Civilization players have quite a lot to say on the subject.
1. NEW FORMS OF WONDERS
Many players have suggested Wonder-like constructions which behave according to a different set of rules than the conventional Wonders of Civilization II, Call to Power and Alpha Centauri.
1.1) World's Greatest: By paying double the shield cost, a civilization can build a World's Greatest city improvement, which grants a small bonus for that city (double effect, as in +100% gold for marketplaces, 4 citizens happy for temples, etc.) Another civilization can pay double that to outdo the current World's Greatest. A temple = 20 shields, the first World's Greatest = 40, someone else spends 80 to outdo them, etc. (Ecce Homo)
1.1a) Pythagoras: Suggests limited timespan for world's greatest.
1.1b) kmj: Suggests "bidding" for world's greatest. Suggests world's greatest can go obsolete, i.e. World's Greatest Marketplace loses all bonuses upon discovery of Banking.
1.1c) Glacier: World's tallest building or longest bridge/tunnel could provide extra gold or happiness.
1.1d) Ecce Homo: World's Greatest Palace would be buildable throughout the game, would give diplomatic bonus and kill corruption.
1.1e) Q Cubed: Every World's Greatest would be effective until trumped by the new World's Greatest. Cost is not doubled but graded at 10% increases. 100, 110, 121, etc. Suggestions:
1.1e1) Tallest Building [+trade]
1.1e2) Longest Bridge [+trade] /must be built between cities across channel, river
1.1e3) Longest Tunnel [+trade] /must be built between cities across channel (~Chunnel), river, mountain, hill\
1.1e4) Greatest Places of Worship (temple, cathedral) [+happiness +trade]
1.1e5) Greatest Places of Trade (marketplace, bank, stock ex., supermarket)) [+trade]
1.1e6) Best (Places of Education (university, library, academy)) [+science]
1.1e7) Best Superhighways [+production *easier travel between cities]
1.1e8) Largest Harbor [+production +food +trade] /must be built in cities with access to inland seas or oceans\
1.1e9) Busiest Airport [+food +production +trade *easier travel between cities such as multiple flights from airports to this city]
1.1e10) Busiest Seaport [+food +production +trade] /must be built in cities with access to ocean
1.1e11) Best Hospital [+science +happiness]
1.1e12) Best (Factories) [+production +trade +science]
1.1e13) Best Arcologies [+trade +science +food +production] /must be built in cities with all city radii squares filled, or cities larger than 21 people\
1.1e14) Best (Entertainment Complexes (Stadium, Holotheaters, Movie Palaces)) [+trade +happiness]
1.1e15) Largest Corporation [+trade +science +production +energy]
1.1e16) Greatest Clock Tower [+trade +production]
1.1f) Flavor Dave: World's Greatests could either be useless or dominant. Balance is important.
1.1g) Theben: Disapproves of World's Greatest because it will end up a lot of wasted production for a minor effect.
1.2) Land Engineering Wonders: The Great Canal, for example, requiring explosives, modern engineers, allows trade routes. The Polders may reclaim land from the sea. A Great Wall which actually acts as a physical wall along the civilization's borders. (Diodorus)
1.2a) Ecce Homo: Canals, bridges, walls could be city improvements. The World's Greatest Canal could have effects resembling Great Canal.
1.2b) kmj: Land engineering Wonders limited by terrain: no Great Canal by water
1.2c) ml_4da3: Engineers should be able to modify rivers; perhaps a Wonder facilitates this.
1.3) Natural Wonders: Effects are conferred upon a civilization simply by having the wonder in its territory. (CyberShy)
1.3a) Taedott: Natural wonders are a resource, no benefits unless "improved."
1.3b) meowser: Natural wonders appear on map, or random on map (SMAC geographical features). Size: 1 tile, offer resource bonus, can be "improved" to provide tourism.
1.3c) J.DeMobray: Building Natural Wonders is ludicrous. What would Mt. Fuji do?
1.3d) Q Cubed: Suggestions:
1.3d1) Landmarks, randomly seeded by the fractal map generator; confers bonuses to all tiles within a city radius
1.3d2) Big Waterfalls {goes by Niagara, Angel, etc.} [+energy +trade +production]
1.3d3) Big Mountains {Kilimanjaro, McKinley, K2, etc.} [+energy +trade -population]
1.3d4) Big Canyons, Trenches {Grand Canyon, Great Rift Valley, etc.} [+energy +trade]
1.3d5) Big Volcanos {Krakatoa, Pinatubo, etc.} [+energy +production -population]
1.3d6) Big Reefs {Great Barrier Reef, etc.} [+trade +science +food]
1.3d7) Big Forests {Schwarzwald, etc.} [+trade +science +production]
1.3d8) Big Jungles {Amazon Rain Forest, etc.} [+trade +science +food +production]
1.3d9) Big Deserts {Sahara, etc.} [+trade +science -population]
1.3d10) Big Inland Freshwater Seas {Lake Victoria, etc.} [+trade +science +food]
1.3d11) Big Inland Saltwater Seas {Caspian Sea, etc.} [+trade +science]
1.3e) Flavor Dave: 2 trade arrows for a Natural Wonder square; looks impressive on the city screen (city view screen). Would make Explorer units more useful. Cities can't be built on Natural Wonder squares.
1.3f) Darkstarr: I don't see anything wrong with a Natural Wonder. There will probably be volcanoes, meteor craters and other large geographical features.
1.4) Alternatives to Shield Production: Certain Wonders are not dependent upon shields (resources) to be built. Scientific Wonders built by beakers, Economic Wonders built by gold. (Ecce Homo)
1.4a) NotLikeTea: How about the first civilization to send a ship around the world automatically gains the "Magellan's Voyage" Wonder. Manhattan Project is accomplished using Research Beakers instead of Shields.
1.4b) Jimmy: agrees with Magellan's Voyage
1.4c) NotLikeTea: Luxuries could be used to build happiness Wonders.
1.4d) NotLikeTea: Rethinking his position because it will end up the rich getting richer. (more gold = more production for economic wonders)
1.4e) Darkstarr: All turn-based games with resources involve the rich getting richer. That's the way reality works, too. Players beat the computer because they manage their resources more intelligently.
1.5) Mini-Wonders: Suggests a huge number of wonders (rather than Wonders) with small effects, usually increased trade. Examples: Space Needle, Leaning Tower, etc. Rather than huge Wonders with sweeping effects like Pyramids, have countless small wonders with tiny, localized effects. (willko)
1.5a) Russell: suggests "mini-wonders" with small build costs.
1.5b) Theben: suggested mini-wonders a while back, double the cost; upon building, the player could choose a special bonus/effect for the mini-wonder (something small and reasonable); there would be a list of effects to choose from. Not all would be available to each building type. No two mini-wonders could have the exact same effects; therefore, there would be many possible mini-wonders per building type, but a finite amount.
1.5c) EnochF: I was thinking mini-wonders would provide only trade bonuses. They'd be things like the Washington Monument, the Space Needle, the Leaning Tower of Pisa, the Louvre, the Neuschwanstein Castle, that sort of thing. It wouldn't make sense to have two of the same mini-wonder in the same city if this is the case.
1.5d) Theben: No, the mini-wonder would be a temple or marketplace or library and count as that building, plus a couple extras, maybe +1 content or +1 morale to units built there. You'd get to name the wonder whatever you want, though the computer might suggest one or more names.
1.5e) Darkstarr: How about World's Fair wonder/event, hosting city gains gold for hosting the fair.
1.6) National Special Projects: "National Special Projects" is the general category, of which Wonders are a subset. Wonders are unique NSP's, but certain NSP's would be rebuildable. Certain Wonders or NSP's could not be built without "prerequisite" NSP's. (Darkstarr)
1.6a) Q Cubed: As opposed to Wonders, National Projects can be built by more than one civilization, though the costs are roughly equivalent. High maintenance and weaker effects than Wonders, typically.
1.6b) EnochF: Tends to think that early Wonders should remain Wonders, and NSP's would be more appropriate in the mid- to late game.
1.6c) Transcend: Transcend: We need to separate wonders and secret projects. Wonders must have a physical form such as buildings, canals, etc. Secret projects are things like Manhattan, Apollo and Human Genome. Wonders can be destroyed and/or captured; secret projects cannot. Secret projects should not be built in a single city; they are property of a nation.
1.6d) Darkstarr: About prerequisites. Hoover Dam has to be built before anyone can built the NSP of National Hydroelectric Project
1.6e) Ecce Homo: Non-material achievements that are researched like techs, but can only be researched once. Examples: Almagest, Emancipation Act, Darwin's Voyage.
1.6f) Jimmy: Secret projects should be secret. Other civs should not be notified when building begins.
1.6g) EnochF: Maybe you could have the option to build in secret at an increased shield cost, or you sacrifice the ability to boost production with caravans.
1.6h) Theben: I don't know about that. A competent spy network should manage to discover something is going on. Unless you've never met the building civ.
1.6i) Andy B: Maybe a wonder like KGB could make your major projects secret from all other civs.
Many people seem to like the concept of the World's Greatest and have contributed their own set or subset of rules to govern their use. I tend to think that World's Greatests would be most useful, and least realistic, in the early game, such as with the World's Greatest Palace and Marketplace. Many people have made the suggestion that the computer should allow the player to name the World's Greatest upon completion. (Of course, the computer will have a number of appropriate suggestions, names which the AI will use.) As Eggman remarked, "Yes, every city has a temple, but there is (or was) only one Temple of Artemis at Ephesus. There are plenty of clock towers, but only one Big Ben. Everyone has a museum, but there is only one Louvre."
The concept of National Special Projects probably stems from Wonders such as Women's Suffrage, Contraception, and other such things that would not ordinarily be limited to one nation. Thus, these Projects follow most of the rules that currently govern Wonders, i.e. their construction is "announced" to all players, they provide Wonder-like effects; however, they can be built once by each civilization upon reaching the necessary advance. Certain Projects and Wonders may require an advance and an NSP to be built. (However, no NSP would require a Wonder to be built, only an NSP; thus, no NSP would be limited to one nation.)
Natural Wonders is, to me, in a category separate from all the other Wonders. Essentially, it is a slightly altered form of the "landmarks" in Alpha Centauri. The "Earth map" of Civilization III would include a number of Natural Wonders in the correct spot, and the square(s) containing the Wonders would provide a bonus to trade or production (which might be amplified by certain advances later on).
2. NEW RULES FOR WONDERS
Many players wish to keep the basic system for building Wonders that has existed in Civilization II and carried on to Call to Power. However, they wish to "tweak" the rules slightly, either in the name of realism or competitive gameplay or something else. Here are some of the changes to the current rules.
2.1) Disallowing "Races to Build": No two cities in one civilization can build the same wonder at the same time. (meowser)
2.1a) CyberShy: No races allowed at all.
2.1b) kmj: Races between two civilizations should be discouraged but not disallowed by the game. A message appears, such as, "Sir, the Egyptians are believed to be working on a similar project. Shall we continue?"
2.1c) SnowFire: Disallowing switching production would severely handicap the AI. A player can always buy the wonder at the last minute, leaving the computer with a great deal of wasted production.
2.1d) ErikNYC: Left-over production could be converted into trade, food, science, or some other variable related to the Wonder being constructed.
2.1e) Stefu: Don't disallow races. Disallow rush-building Wonders. This would make races more interesting. (Trying various ways of cranking up production).
2.1f) NotLikeTea: Don't disallow rush-building Wonders. Limit it. Allow 10% rush-building per turn at a high cost.
2.1g) Jimmy: Disallow switching production. How can Pyramid builders suddenly start building Leonardo's Workshop?
2.1h) Theben: Do not allow civs to continue building Wonders that are already built; they can "upgrade" a city improvement to a mini-wonder or world's greatest, or can build mini-wonder/world's greatest building from scratch.
2.2) Visible Wonders: Certain Wonders would appear in the city radius as impressive graphics. They would not confer any bonus to the worker on that square. (EnochF)
2.2a) meowser: Visible wonders should be vulnerable to pillage (without direct assault on the city).
2.2b) Ecce Homo: All Wonders should be visible. If it's not visible, it's not a Wonder (Women's Suffrage, Internet, Emancipation Act are thus disallowed)
2.3) Gradual Wonder Obsolescence: Wonders should not cease all effects on obsolescence, but gradually "phase out" over a few turns. (Zorloc)
2.3a) Zakalwe: Suggests something similar for captured wonders. Effects do not take effect immediately.
2.3b) kmj: No advance should make more than one Wonder obsolete.
2.3c) Russell: An advance discovered by a faraway civilization should not make your wonder go obsolete. This should only happen when you've encountered the civilization directly.
2.3d) Ecce Homo: Wonders should not "go obsolete." They should become irrelevant. Examples: Great Library will only give Ancient or Medieval advances. Great Wall does not protect against gunpowder units. Thus, Great Wall will always protect against Legions, whether or not Metallurgy has been discovered.
2.4) Wonders as a Civilization-Wide Project: Wonders are not built on the level of the city at all. Instead of being a city project, they are built by the entire civilization, using X% of total production or some such thing. Wonders thus do not appear in cities but in a special "wonder screen." (meowser)
2.4a) Fugi the Great: Wonders built by engineers or terraformers rather than X% of production. Increase costs of Wonders.
2.4b) Eggman: Instead, have cities "funnel" their production into building the Wonder. Instead of having cities build caravans, which add to production, "eliminate the middleman." A city could dedicate its production (or a percentage) to building a Wonder.
2.5) Wonder Deterrents: Random negative effects for more powerful wonders. Leonardo's might leave a percentage of units not upgraded. Lighthouse has a chance to burn out each turn. (Ufa)
2.5a) EnochF: As an alternative to random effects, use constant negative effects instead. Increased pollution or corruption in the host city, slight happiness reduction for the civilization, high maintenance cost in gold, or something along those lines.
2.5b) EnochF: Example: if the Great Library is ever captured, your civilization may lose all the technology it provided.
2.5c) J.DeMobray: How about instead a Wonder that gives you a chance per turn for something positive to happen. West Point could grant veteran status to units within its city, or Tokyo Exchange could grant the city 10x gold.
2.5d) Q Cubed: That might be okay for world's greatest or mini-wonders, but not Wonder wonders.
2.5e) Matthew: Maybe building certain Wonders would preclude the building of other Wonders. Or perhaps certain Wonders would be less effective for larger civs or civs with more cities, to balance out ICS strategies.
2.5f) EnochF: Perhaps large maintenance costs for Wonders. Keep them low for early Wonders, maybe 8 or 10 gold per turn. Examples: Pyramids and Hanging Gardens: 1 shield + 10 gold. King Richard's: 3 food + 20 gold. Michelangelo's: 2 shields + 30 gold. Oracle: 5 gold. SETI: 4 shields + 50 gold. Adam Smith's: buildable only in cities w/bank, nullifies marketplace and bank in host city, cost 2 shields + 30 gold.
2.5g) Andy B: Wonders that cost money: no, no and no.
2.6) Re-buildable Wonders: Only if two rival civilizations are building the same wonder, the second civilization to complete the wonder receives a "compensation" bonus of happiness or gold. The first civilization receives the standard wonder effect. (meowser)
2.6a) Fugi the Great: Civs can build the same Wonder and call it something different.
2.6b) wheathin: Wonders should be only those things which are not reproducible; everything else is a city improvement of some kind, but mini-wonders could work as a middle step.
2.6c) paraclet: Favors off button, or that all civilizations should be able to build each Wonder once. Once a Wonder is built, all civilizations could build a corresponding "national project," i.e., Leonardo's equivalent would be National Academy of Technology.
2.6d) Flavor Dave: Wonders should be built only once. This incorporates important choices in the strategy of the game.
2.6e) Q Cubed: Multiple clones of a Wonder are a poor alternative to the "unfair advantage" of one civilization having dominion over one Wonder. A re-buildable Wonder wouldn't be a Wonder.
2.6f) Matthew: I don't like the idea of more than one civ building the same Wonder. Then it wouldn't be a Wonder.
2.7) Evolving Wonders Through the Ages: Wonder effects which change as the ages progress. Pyramids act as granary early on, then change to gold bonus. Olympic Games provide extra gold, cease to function in Renaissance, then increase happiness in later ages, etc. Aging wonders may incur higher and higher maintenance costs. (Eggman)
2.7a) EnochF: All obsolete wonders generate tourism gold.
2.7b) SnowFire: Aging wonders should not incur maintenance costs simply because they are obsolete. However, maintenance costs for certain Wonders may be feasible.
2.7c) EdCase: When a Wonder goes obsolete, adds 10% to income of the city.
2.7d) Depp: The game's more fun when Wonders never go obsolete.
2.8) Culture Specific Wonders: Certain Wonders are only constructible by certain civilizations. Which civilization can build which Wonder may be randomized at the beginning of the game. (meowser)
2.8a) kmj: Disagrees with cultural wonders, warns against "factions" rather than civilizations, which might work in SMAC but not in Civilization III.
2.8b) (Many disagreements)
2.9) Uncertainty of Wonder Effects: Effects of wonders should not be predefined. Effects of the Wonder should only become clear to the builder X number of years after it is built. (CyberShy)
2.10) Shared Wonder Effects in Alliance: Also suggested in the Diplomacy list. All civilizations allied with each other receive the effects of each other's Wonders. (meowser)
2.11) Cooperative Wonder Building: Certain limited Wonders could be jointly built by a conglomeration of nations. United Nations is an obvious choice. (meowser)
2.11a) Torando7: I like the idea of gaining the ability to combine your efforts with allied civs to build super-wonders, like the International Space Station. The bonus would apply only so long as you are allied.
2.11b) Maybe building the Unity, the ship bound for Alpha Centauri, should be limited to international construction. Or maybe not.
2.12) Name Your Own Wonder: Hoover Dam may be called Aswan or Three Gorges or London Dam. Forbidden City may be called Imperial Palace, Throne Hall of Persepolis, Palace of Versailles or Atlanta Palace. The Agency may be called FBI, CIA, KGB, KLA or KMJ Killer Squad. (kmj)
2.12a) Trachmyr: The game should suggest a few key names.
2.12b) Flavor Dave: Naming your own wonder would offset America-centrism.
2.13) Wonder Cost Affected by World Type: Certain wonders are more beneficial in certain worlds. Lighthouse and Magellan are more useful in watery worlds; Marco Polo for large worlds. Thus, they would cost more shields in such worlds and less in other worlds. (Theben)
2.14) Destroy Wonder: The spy ability to destroy a Wonder in an enemy city. In SMAC terminology, counts as an atrocity. (Stefu)
2.14a) Mo: Alternate idea. If a city containing a Wonder is destroyed, the Wonder will remain visible in one of the city squares (assumes Visible Wonders are implemented). Any civilization which builds a city near the wonder gains "part of its effects."
2.14b) meowser: Visible wonders should be vulnerable to pillage. (This is a suggestion made a while ago on the subject of "visible wonders.")
2.14c) Andy B: Why aren't Wonders destroyed when you nuke a city?
2.14d) Eggman: How about the option to rebuild a Wonder if it's destroyed. Perhaps only the original building civ could opt to rebuild, and it must be done within in a certain number of turns after its destruction or the Wonder is lost forever.
2.14e) Andy B: Or maybe you can only rebuild it after it's gone obsolete... and it becomes a tourist attraction.
2.15) Delayed Availability: Merely having researched the appropriate technology does not immediately allow the construction of the Wonder associated with that technology. There is a cumulative chance each turn that someone will "think up" the Wonder, making it available for your civilization to build. (Ufa)
2.15a) Harel: I've already suggested that a new technology, Architecture, would be required in order to build Wonders at all. Without applied knowledge of mathematics, engineering and construction, you can't build something so huge.
2.16) One Wonder Per City: As a way to hinder the "rich get richer" syndrome, limit cities to one active Wonder at a time. If City A builds Hanging Gardens, it cannot build another Wonder until HG goes obsolete, thus eliminating the "super city" strategy. Or tie it to population. Cities of pop 25+ can have two Wonders (New York has UN and SOL).
2.16a) Theben: I disagree. I like my super-science city. Turning off Wonders is challenge enough without arbitrary limits like this.
3. IMPLEMENTATION OF WONDERS
This is a tricky category. Some people want to tweak the way Wonders affect the game and the way in which we think about Wonders. For example:
3.1) Programmable Wonders: A long series of flags allows players to redefine current wonders and create new ones to a much larger extent. Any Wonders dropped from the final release of the game might still persist as possible game effects to be used by scenario and modpack designers. (EnochF)
3.2) Wonders Off Option: An option in the game menu to disallow all wonder effects (and even the ability to build wonders). Alternatively, an option to "tone down" wonders, maybe decrease effects by half wherever possible. (kmj)
3.2a) Ufa: A "modifier" for wonders, like Civilization II's modifier for barbarians
3.2b) Mark_Everson: Disallow wonders that count as an improvement in every city. Wonders that never go obsolete are unbalancing.
3.2c) Ecce Homo: Suggests Pyramid be city improvement, thus Great Pyramid = world's greatest
3.3) "Culture" Partly Defined by Wonders: Part of a larger system suggested in other forums. The Wonders a player builds help define a new game element called "culture," which may affect a civilization's war readiness, science, economy, government, even graphical representation on screen. A fairly radical reordering of traditional Civilization. Bears resemblance to "social engineering" as found in SMAC. (Trachmyr)
3.3a) Darkstarr: Special Projects could be mechanisms for adjusting social engineering.
3.4) Universal Wonder Effects: Growing out of Sieve Too's Internet Wonder. Many wonders provide benefits to all civilizations, i.e. the Olympic Games open to all who choose to participate, Wormhole Sensor, Apollo, Manhattan, etc. (Ecce Homo)
3.4a) willko: Disagrees. Wonders should have localizable benefits to the city they are built in (e.g., Lighthouse only functions at X distance maximum). Any wonder with a "universal" benefit should have a separate "non-universal" benefit, i.e. Manhattan Project also grants +25% science.
3.4b) Theben: I strongly believe the positive effects of wonders w/UB should slowly spread to other civs. Otherwise player has no incentive to build his/her own.
3.4c) Andy B: The Olympic Games could act as a peace and trade wonder. It could only function when the civs are at peace with each other.
3.4d) NotLikeTea: I don't think Olympic Games should be a peace wonder.
3.4e) Eggman: In times of war, the Olympics have been canceled. But countries have agreed to ceasefires so their athletes could compete (especially in ancient Greece). Maybe the Olympics could be an event that happens every 20 years or so, rather than a Wonder. A new city would host each time, providing some trade bonus, and whoever "wins" gets an "I Love the Leader" day in every city for one turn.
3.5) Eliminating Eurocentrism and Americacentrism: Consensus is that the Wonders are Eurocentric or Americacentric. There is a call for more international Wonders. Several are listed in the Suggested Wonders section. (too many to list)
3.5a) Areas for consideration: Russia has been passed over for Wonders. The Americas are under-represented, except for the United States, which is over-represented.
3.6) Eliminating Person-Based Wonders: Wonders such as Shakespeare's Theater would be eliminated. Instead, "Great Leader" units would pop up occasionally. (Bubba)
3.7) Seven Wonders per Age: Every age would have exactly seven Wonders (mrtemba)
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