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</font><font size=1>Originally posted by don Don on 03-06-2000 09:33 AM</font>
Pythagoras,
I don't think the current system should be entirely eliminated as you propose. The need to physically traverse the route to the destination is important. SMAC's system is somewhat reasonable given the assumed electronic communications and transportation modes available. Such assumptions don't hold for Civ3.
Even well into the steam era the safe arrival of your cargo was anything but guaranteed. It took about 9-12 months to procure trade goods, sail from Europe or the Americas to the Far East, trade, and return. The famous slaves/molasses/rum triangle also took 9-12 months. The vulnerability of trade units in transit, etc, is a good aspect of the game.
The model can definitely be improved with ideas on piracy and blocade. It is reasonable to allow new trade routes to be set up to a city that already has a trade route with your civ, but doing so would forego or greatly reduce the cash and science bonus. You should have to get the bonuses the old fashioned way: you earn it (thanks, Smith Barney).
I have some hope that improved forms of movement generalization will be implemented that should help reduce micromgmt. Numerous suggestions about the interface wrt/trade management should help, too.
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>
Well another addendum to my argument would be that in real life merchants trade with whomever they want until a government official stops them. Trade routes are set up not by governments, but by merchants seeking money.
Transit of things was generally reliable back int the day, not nearly as reliable as today, but I'd say about 90% reliable. Why else would people rely on such modes of transportation to get them around?
Anyway I can see where this model could be changed to show the physical traversal. Instead of having lines between citys, have caravans that 'auto caravan' between 2 trading citys. Enemy units can raid these caravans, or charge them a fee to to go through there lands. Anyway as each caravan moves back and forth it would act much like a train does in RR Tycoon, taking what each city demands from one city and bringing it to another.
How you would innitiate trade with this model is the following:
1. You build a caravan
2. You use the goto function to go to a city that you wish to establish a route with.
3. Once you arrive, you are asked if you would like to establish a trade route.
4. The caravan then goes back and forth, each time it arrives it gives you flat out cash, and some science and lucturies.
5. If the city you are trading with is very far away, you may decide to build more caravans and trade more with that city.
This trade route would improve relations with the civ you are trading with, since everyone is making money and is happy, as I said in my original proposal, and as your city size increases, and as tech progresses more trade routes can be supported. In fact, you could just throw out the notion of only being able to support n trade routes per city if each caravan costs one shield to support. You would just decide for yourself if you want to support lots of caravans or if you want to support a larger military or whatever. And as tech gets better, and your city gets bigger more shields become available to support more units, and hence more trade.
With this method, the physical traversal is there and required by the caravan, without the micromanagement. The option to hide caravans should be included, so the screen doesnt get cluttered... I propose that there be a 'trade move phase' whereby caravans move on their own. Perhaps also a waypoint system could be included for these caravans if a player wanted to avoid certain enemy territory.
Another side note, military units could be assigned to guard caravans, follow them around and protect them...
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by don Don on 03-06-2000 09:33 AM</font>
Pythagoras,
I don't think the current system should be entirely eliminated as you propose. The need to physically traverse the route to the destination is important. SMAC's system is somewhat reasonable given the assumed electronic communications and transportation modes available. Such assumptions don't hold for Civ3.
Even well into the steam era the safe arrival of your cargo was anything but guaranteed. It took about 9-12 months to procure trade goods, sail from Europe or the Americas to the Far East, trade, and return. The famous slaves/molasses/rum triangle also took 9-12 months. The vulnerability of trade units in transit, etc, is a good aspect of the game.
The model can definitely be improved with ideas on piracy and blocade. It is reasonable to allow new trade routes to be set up to a city that already has a trade route with your civ, but doing so would forego or greatly reduce the cash and science bonus. You should have to get the bonuses the old fashioned way: you earn it (thanks, Smith Barney).
I have some hope that improved forms of movement generalization will be implemented that should help reduce micromgmt. Numerous suggestions about the interface wrt/trade management should help, too.
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>
Well another addendum to my argument would be that in real life merchants trade with whomever they want until a government official stops them. Trade routes are set up not by governments, but by merchants seeking money.
Transit of things was generally reliable back int the day, not nearly as reliable as today, but I'd say about 90% reliable. Why else would people rely on such modes of transportation to get them around?
Anyway I can see where this model could be changed to show the physical traversal. Instead of having lines between citys, have caravans that 'auto caravan' between 2 trading citys. Enemy units can raid these caravans, or charge them a fee to to go through there lands. Anyway as each caravan moves back and forth it would act much like a train does in RR Tycoon, taking what each city demands from one city and bringing it to another.
How you would innitiate trade with this model is the following:
1. You build a caravan
2. You use the goto function to go to a city that you wish to establish a route with.
3. Once you arrive, you are asked if you would like to establish a trade route.
4. The caravan then goes back and forth, each time it arrives it gives you flat out cash, and some science and lucturies.
5. If the city you are trading with is very far away, you may decide to build more caravans and trade more with that city.
This trade route would improve relations with the civ you are trading with, since everyone is making money and is happy, as I said in my original proposal, and as your city size increases, and as tech progresses more trade routes can be supported. In fact, you could just throw out the notion of only being able to support n trade routes per city if each caravan costs one shield to support. You would just decide for yourself if you want to support lots of caravans or if you want to support a larger military or whatever. And as tech gets better, and your city gets bigger more shields become available to support more units, and hence more trade.
With this method, the physical traversal is there and required by the caravan, without the micromanagement. The option to hide caravans should be included, so the screen doesnt get cluttered... I propose that there be a 'trade move phase' whereby caravans move on their own. Perhaps also a waypoint system could be included for these caravans if a player wanted to avoid certain enemy territory.
Another side note, military units could be assigned to guard caravans, follow them around and protect them...
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