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But, we will continue in our efforts to find more. So, read through the summary. If you see something that needs to be addressed, please post it. If I have forgotten something, just give me grief and I will work it into the next wave.
Again, thanks for your help... here is the summary.
CHEATS
Even though this section is called cheats, it really encompasses much more. This was also meant to cover design flaws that can be utilized to your advantage while playing
the game. We recognize that much of the new game will be different than the current
game. And many of the things we are going to bring up will probably be changed anyway. But, our intent is show you how we abuse the current game. By seeing how we do it now, you will have an idea of what to pay attention to in the new game.
First, I would like to thank the following people for all their time and contributions to this section: Ecce Homo, Carolus Rex, Theben, Zorloc, EnochF, DaveV, Txurce, Xin Yu, Depp, GP,Rainer, Sieve Too, Bird, Travathian, Rashind, Sten Sture, JoshXLII, Matthew, Alexander's Horse, mingko, MWHC, and Kaak.
FREE INFORMATION
Much of the fun of the game is in the discovery. But little did you know that you provide us with tons of ways to cheat and get information we shouldn't have:
1) if you are looking for other civs, you can use the city menu and click on a unit. It
tells you the nearest city, even if you haven't found the city yet. It helps you find, or hunt down other civs.
2) Clicking on the map where you haven't explored, and look at the number after the
coordinates tells you if the place is ocean or land… very important when moving ships
that can be lost at sea.
3) double-click a square which you have already explored. If you don't see the terrian information, then you know somebody has built a city there.
4) Any city that has built a wonder may be located using the "find City" command. You
get an exact location, even if you haven't discovered the city yet.
In MP, there are a few real good sources for "free" information:
1) The start up screen when you select civs while continuing a saved game. This gives
you the number of cities and number of units for all civs. Now, you probably did this to
allow somebody new to pick the better of the AI controlled civs. Why not set it up so
that if a civ has been passworded, the information doesn't show for them.
2) The chat screen provides titles for the players you are sending messages too. If you
learn the different titles for each race, you can reasonably track what government they
are in, or when they are between governments.
3) If somebody investigates a city with a spy or diplomat, all players in the game that
have that city on his or her map can see what's in it too.
THE CHEAT MENU AND GAME SECURITY
And right behind all the free information we can get through the above things, there is
always the cheat menu. Most people love the cheat menu, and nobody really wants it
eliminated. However, better security is needed. Here are the issues that were raised:
1) Password protection on MP was a great idea. But, if you use the scenario menu, and
flag the scenario option, you can then use the cheat menu to view the board, or even
change the rules. Some people have been saving the game, and then loading it onto a
second computer so they can view the whole world while playing an MP game. Why not
offer the same protection… if you want to use the scenario options, have it check to
see if there are any passwords. This won't stop designers from doing what they want,
but it would stop the blatant cheating.
2) The next point is one you can't probably do anything about, but most people brought
it up. The reloading of a game to avoid and replay a "bad event" is always discussed.
It's ok that you can do this, because many people do it. But, is there some way a "no
cheat" option can be selected at the start of the game that would not allow reloading.
Again, it is probably impossible, but many people would like to see this option.
3) The cheat menu is nice. And it's really nice that if you use it, it is recorded in the game. But most people just go to cheat, look at the map or whatever, and then reload
the game so it isn't recorded. Again, probably impossible to do… but anything that would even make this harder to do would help.
4) The password coding is too easy to break. Several people have come up ways read them, or cancel them.
FREE MOVEMENT
While airports and railroads already provide almost unlimited movement, there are many
design flaws that allow big abuses of the system.
1) In MP, you can give a unit to a player after you have moved it. The other player can
also move it on his turn. This can double the distance it can move in a single turn. It's a
great way to sneak a spy through good defenses to bribe a city. And it even gets
worse. If you move a unit, give it to a player, and he gives it back during your turn, you can move it again. This can be repeated as many times as you like, giving a unit real unlimited movement. Some have suggested that all you need to do is make so a unit can only move once during any given year, or make it so a unit can't be moved during the year after it was given to somebody.
2) The Free Trade Route Trick is also a good cheat. If you give a caravan or freight to
somebody, they can set up an immediate trade route with you. By doing this, there is
no need to ever have to move a caravan over land or sea… just give it to a player, and
on his turn, the trade route is established. Instant money. You can be on an island, and
move caravans to any point on the globe as long as you have established contact or
built one of the two embassy wonders. Some have suggested that when you give somebody a caravan or freight, it moves to whatever city is considered it's home. Yes,
this is also free movement, but is the lesser of two evils.
3) The I Can Walk On Water Trick is also a good way to increase movement. If you give
somebody a ship, any units on it appear on the nearest shore. You can move your ship
just past the halfway mark of any large body of water, and give the ship away. Your
units remain under your control, and appear on the other side of the ocean, ready to
attack or move. (One additional comment… if you give a boat to somebody else that
happens to be in a stack, the rest of the ships disappear… this must be a flaw)
4) Ship Chaining is also a good one. By using a chain of ships, you can move units from
one ship to another and move them very large distances in one turn. As long as you have your ships in the right place, it's amazing what you can do. We understand the
need to allow the transfer of troops from one ship to another, but there must be someway to limit just how many ships they can be transferred to.
5) Another concern by some is the ability to move a unit into a city using it's last
movement point, then putting it to sleep so that it can board a ship on the same turn.
Combine this with ship chaining, and things get out of hand. Some have suggested that
a units disposition shouldn't be allowed to be changed by a city menu after it's
movement points have been used.
COMMAND MENU CONSISTENCY
This section is only really meant to ask you to be consistent. If there are multiple ways
to give a unit a command (command menu or city screen), make sure that both allow
the same thing.
1) Changing the home city of a caravan or freight is a classic example. In the rules, it says you can't do this. On the command menu, that option can't be selected. In the
city menu, you can. Now, the latest patch fixes this for MP games, but not for regular
games against the AI
2) The free fortify option is another example. If you select a unit in the city menu and fortify it, it is not fortified until the next turn. If you fortify a unit in a city by using the command menu, it instantly becomes fortified.
COMBAT CHEATS
1) The old "unattackable stack" trick is a real cheat. Put a bomber over a stack of units, and no ground units can hit it. Is this really what the designer intended?
2) The "ZOC Avoidance Trick". By using spies or diplomats, you can move your military
units through zones of control. We actually can't agree on whether this is a cheat or
not. But the real question is, was this what the designers intended?
3) By using multiple engineers, you can change a square from fortification to air base and then back again all during the same turn. This gives you the advantages of both,
which goes against what is written in the manual.
OTHER CHEATS
Here are some more things that may or may not be considered flaws. Nobody really knows if some of these were intentional or not.
1) Airbases provide additional shields and food when built within a city radius. They also provide instant railroads. In addition, you can build a line of them, and keep enemy air units and nukes away from specific locations. This can't be intentional, could it?
2) Some people use nukes and cruise missiles to explore or patrol. The though of a missile coming home defies logic. Some have suggested that missiles should be treated
like paratroopers. You pick a target, and the missile goes there.
3) The way food caravans make the food box full can be used in a strange way. You
can send multiple food caravans from city A to the city B, and it will only cost you one
food subtraction for the trade route. The first caravan fills the box, and the second
adds a population. This can be repeated endlessly to build cities up to the max
population without any concern to the availability of food in the city radius. All this for the cost of ONE food trade route.
4) Rush buying military units has caused a lot of discussion. From Civ I to Civ II, they
changed the building process to create three categories: units, city improvements, and
wonders. This was done to stop many of the cheat building tricks we were using in CivI. But, if you want to rush buy a military unit… it is cheaper to buy it in stages. If you
want a diplomat… buy a warrior, change to horse and buy it, and the change to
diplomat and buy that… all in the same turn. This is cheaper than just buying a diplomat
straight up. Interestingly enough, you can only use this trick on units. It doesn't make a difference to do this with city improvements or wonders. Since this difference exists, many consider it cheating. Whether it is or not, isn't the issue. If this was intentional, we just ask that you include information on it in the manual so we know.
5) The "Repeated Commodity" has also caused discussion. Usually, when you build a
freight or caravan, you pick a commodity. After that, that commodity can't be built
anymore. But rare cities have the ability to allow you to produce the same commodity
over and over again. Is this a flaw?
6) The turbo settler/engineer is another one. If you command a settler/engineer to do
something, and then stop it before the action is complete, you can move the settler to
another spot and continue the same task there. Any time spent in the previous square
working on the improvement is transferred to the new square. Bug or feature?
IN CONCLUSION
I'm sure that more examples will pop up in the future. But that's not really the issue.
Since this will be a new game, we know that many of these things will not be relevant.
However, all we ask is for you to consider how we are cheating now, and think about it
as you design this new game. No game is perfect. When it comes out, we will find new
ways to cheat. With a little extra though up front, you can make it harder on us. And,
when we do figure them out, just ask us what they are so you can fix them (if possible)
with new patches.
Thank you for listening to us.
MING
<font size=1 color=444444>[This message has been edited by Ming (edited June 15, 1999).]</font>
But, we will continue in our efforts to find more. So, read through the summary. If you see something that needs to be addressed, please post it. If I have forgotten something, just give me grief and I will work it into the next wave.
Again, thanks for your help... here is the summary.
CHEATS
Even though this section is called cheats, it really encompasses much more. This was also meant to cover design flaws that can be utilized to your advantage while playing
the game. We recognize that much of the new game will be different than the current
game. And many of the things we are going to bring up will probably be changed anyway. But, our intent is show you how we abuse the current game. By seeing how we do it now, you will have an idea of what to pay attention to in the new game.
First, I would like to thank the following people for all their time and contributions to this section: Ecce Homo, Carolus Rex, Theben, Zorloc, EnochF, DaveV, Txurce, Xin Yu, Depp, GP,Rainer, Sieve Too, Bird, Travathian, Rashind, Sten Sture, JoshXLII, Matthew, Alexander's Horse, mingko, MWHC, and Kaak.
FREE INFORMATION
Much of the fun of the game is in the discovery. But little did you know that you provide us with tons of ways to cheat and get information we shouldn't have:
1) if you are looking for other civs, you can use the city menu and click on a unit. It
tells you the nearest city, even if you haven't found the city yet. It helps you find, or hunt down other civs.
2) Clicking on the map where you haven't explored, and look at the number after the
coordinates tells you if the place is ocean or land… very important when moving ships
that can be lost at sea.
3) double-click a square which you have already explored. If you don't see the terrian information, then you know somebody has built a city there.
4) Any city that has built a wonder may be located using the "find City" command. You
get an exact location, even if you haven't discovered the city yet.
In MP, there are a few real good sources for "free" information:
1) The start up screen when you select civs while continuing a saved game. This gives
you the number of cities and number of units for all civs. Now, you probably did this to
allow somebody new to pick the better of the AI controlled civs. Why not set it up so
that if a civ has been passworded, the information doesn't show for them.
2) The chat screen provides titles for the players you are sending messages too. If you
learn the different titles for each race, you can reasonably track what government they
are in, or when they are between governments.
3) If somebody investigates a city with a spy or diplomat, all players in the game that
have that city on his or her map can see what's in it too.
THE CHEAT MENU AND GAME SECURITY
And right behind all the free information we can get through the above things, there is
always the cheat menu. Most people love the cheat menu, and nobody really wants it
eliminated. However, better security is needed. Here are the issues that were raised:
1) Password protection on MP was a great idea. But, if you use the scenario menu, and
flag the scenario option, you can then use the cheat menu to view the board, or even
change the rules. Some people have been saving the game, and then loading it onto a
second computer so they can view the whole world while playing an MP game. Why not
offer the same protection… if you want to use the scenario options, have it check to
see if there are any passwords. This won't stop designers from doing what they want,
but it would stop the blatant cheating.
2) The next point is one you can't probably do anything about, but most people brought
it up. The reloading of a game to avoid and replay a "bad event" is always discussed.
It's ok that you can do this, because many people do it. But, is there some way a "no
cheat" option can be selected at the start of the game that would not allow reloading.
Again, it is probably impossible, but many people would like to see this option.
3) The cheat menu is nice. And it's really nice that if you use it, it is recorded in the game. But most people just go to cheat, look at the map or whatever, and then reload
the game so it isn't recorded. Again, probably impossible to do… but anything that would even make this harder to do would help.
4) The password coding is too easy to break. Several people have come up ways read them, or cancel them.
FREE MOVEMENT
While airports and railroads already provide almost unlimited movement, there are many
design flaws that allow big abuses of the system.
1) In MP, you can give a unit to a player after you have moved it. The other player can
also move it on his turn. This can double the distance it can move in a single turn. It's a
great way to sneak a spy through good defenses to bribe a city. And it even gets
worse. If you move a unit, give it to a player, and he gives it back during your turn, you can move it again. This can be repeated as many times as you like, giving a unit real unlimited movement. Some have suggested that all you need to do is make so a unit can only move once during any given year, or make it so a unit can't be moved during the year after it was given to somebody.
2) The Free Trade Route Trick is also a good cheat. If you give a caravan or freight to
somebody, they can set up an immediate trade route with you. By doing this, there is
no need to ever have to move a caravan over land or sea… just give it to a player, and
on his turn, the trade route is established. Instant money. You can be on an island, and
move caravans to any point on the globe as long as you have established contact or
built one of the two embassy wonders. Some have suggested that when you give somebody a caravan or freight, it moves to whatever city is considered it's home. Yes,
this is also free movement, but is the lesser of two evils.
3) The I Can Walk On Water Trick is also a good way to increase movement. If you give
somebody a ship, any units on it appear on the nearest shore. You can move your ship
just past the halfway mark of any large body of water, and give the ship away. Your
units remain under your control, and appear on the other side of the ocean, ready to
attack or move. (One additional comment… if you give a boat to somebody else that
happens to be in a stack, the rest of the ships disappear… this must be a flaw)
4) Ship Chaining is also a good one. By using a chain of ships, you can move units from
one ship to another and move them very large distances in one turn. As long as you have your ships in the right place, it's amazing what you can do. We understand the
need to allow the transfer of troops from one ship to another, but there must be someway to limit just how many ships they can be transferred to.
5) Another concern by some is the ability to move a unit into a city using it's last
movement point, then putting it to sleep so that it can board a ship on the same turn.
Combine this with ship chaining, and things get out of hand. Some have suggested that
a units disposition shouldn't be allowed to be changed by a city menu after it's
movement points have been used.
COMMAND MENU CONSISTENCY
This section is only really meant to ask you to be consistent. If there are multiple ways
to give a unit a command (command menu or city screen), make sure that both allow
the same thing.
1) Changing the home city of a caravan or freight is a classic example. In the rules, it says you can't do this. On the command menu, that option can't be selected. In the
city menu, you can. Now, the latest patch fixes this for MP games, but not for regular
games against the AI
2) The free fortify option is another example. If you select a unit in the city menu and fortify it, it is not fortified until the next turn. If you fortify a unit in a city by using the command menu, it instantly becomes fortified.
COMBAT CHEATS
1) The old "unattackable stack" trick is a real cheat. Put a bomber over a stack of units, and no ground units can hit it. Is this really what the designer intended?
2) The "ZOC Avoidance Trick". By using spies or diplomats, you can move your military
units through zones of control. We actually can't agree on whether this is a cheat or
not. But the real question is, was this what the designers intended?
3) By using multiple engineers, you can change a square from fortification to air base and then back again all during the same turn. This gives you the advantages of both,
which goes against what is written in the manual.
OTHER CHEATS
Here are some more things that may or may not be considered flaws. Nobody really knows if some of these were intentional or not.
1) Airbases provide additional shields and food when built within a city radius. They also provide instant railroads. In addition, you can build a line of them, and keep enemy air units and nukes away from specific locations. This can't be intentional, could it?
2) Some people use nukes and cruise missiles to explore or patrol. The though of a missile coming home defies logic. Some have suggested that missiles should be treated
like paratroopers. You pick a target, and the missile goes there.
3) The way food caravans make the food box full can be used in a strange way. You
can send multiple food caravans from city A to the city B, and it will only cost you one
food subtraction for the trade route. The first caravan fills the box, and the second
adds a population. This can be repeated endlessly to build cities up to the max
population without any concern to the availability of food in the city radius. All this for the cost of ONE food trade route.
4) Rush buying military units has caused a lot of discussion. From Civ I to Civ II, they
changed the building process to create three categories: units, city improvements, and
wonders. This was done to stop many of the cheat building tricks we were using in CivI. But, if you want to rush buy a military unit… it is cheaper to buy it in stages. If you
want a diplomat… buy a warrior, change to horse and buy it, and the change to
diplomat and buy that… all in the same turn. This is cheaper than just buying a diplomat
straight up. Interestingly enough, you can only use this trick on units. It doesn't make a difference to do this with city improvements or wonders. Since this difference exists, many consider it cheating. Whether it is or not, isn't the issue. If this was intentional, we just ask that you include information on it in the manual so we know.
5) The "Repeated Commodity" has also caused discussion. Usually, when you build a
freight or caravan, you pick a commodity. After that, that commodity can't be built
anymore. But rare cities have the ability to allow you to produce the same commodity
over and over again. Is this a flaw?
6) The turbo settler/engineer is another one. If you command a settler/engineer to do
something, and then stop it before the action is complete, you can move the settler to
another spot and continue the same task there. Any time spent in the previous square
working on the improvement is transferred to the new square. Bug or feature?
IN CONCLUSION
I'm sure that more examples will pop up in the future. But that's not really the issue.
Since this will be a new game, we know that many of these things will not be relevant.
However, all we ask is for you to consider how we are cheating now, and think about it
as you design this new game. No game is perfect. When it comes out, we will find new
ways to cheat. With a little extra though up front, you can make it harder on us. And,
when we do figure them out, just ask us what they are so you can fix them (if possible)
with new patches.
Thank you for listening to us.
MING
<font size=1 color=444444>[This message has been edited by Ming (edited June 15, 1999).]</font>
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