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  • #46
    Okay, let's continue refining and combining ideas:

    First of all, let's have set technology amounts to research. A Level 1 technology takes 50 points to research, period. A Level 3 technology takes 600 points. Now, there are several modifiers to this. I say this because I hated, in CivI, how it would take 15 turns for my Industrial Revolution society to go back and research Pottery (since in CivI it was a useless dead end). Now, of course, there can be a bunch of percentage bonuses and penalties to this. First and foremost, ones that are based on difficulty level, and that are applied across the board at the beginning of the game (you're playing on Chieftain? Fine, 20% bonus for you and 30% penalty for the computer). Secondly, things like the "basic research" idea mentioned before, i.e. "Discovery of Atomic Physics speeds all physics research by 10%." Furthermore, since the prices of a level of technology are set in stone, if my society which never bothered to learn pottery tried to research it, I'd easily get the 50 measly points (unless the reason why I never researched it was because I had my allocation set to 0% in whatever category pottery is in).

    So, I'm seeing a tech tree just like in CivII, except slightly less interdependent. Each tech has a color as well that represents it's field of study. Some possible categories:

    Philosophy (a lot of general learning type advancements. Gives you the most government types as well, and the category most heavily dependent on prerequisites that are outside the category, or in other words, the most intertwined category. Setting this to 0% is suicide).

    Psychology (includes religion & theology as well as other people-contenters for Octopus's atheists, the arts, and some spy-improving techs)

    Mathematics & Physics (starts out with simple war machines and math ideas, leads to astronomy, magnetism, railroads, flight, space travel, and the atom bomb.)

    Agriculture & Biology (Pretty much as it says. Starts out with better irrigation techniques, moves on to medicines and even chemical warfare later)

    Economics (Starts out with Trade 101 with currency & caravans, and eventually hits industrialization, mass capitalism, and (indirectly) communism.)

    There are probably other categories, but it's best to keep it small- 5 categories means easier manipulation of your society's research focus (Not "Do I make applied transportation 6% or 7%?"). And if I didn't mention before, these are using my idea of setting research allocations for a category, which determines your research speed for your scientists in each category. No more "Okay, my entire society of philosophers that discovered the Republic now become economics majors and study trade.") Also note that there is no "Military science" category- that would make it to easy to pursue a straight military buildup, and with multiple paths to military might like in the previous ideas, that shouldn't be a big problem.
    All syllogisms have three parts.
    Therefore this is not a syllogism.

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    • #47
      I like the Idea of being able to turn on a Historical Tech Tree (as long as I can turn it off).

      Ralph,
      I think the AI can eaisly compete with humans in this "abstract" tech system... just have a file that gives them their sequence of progression... occasionally adding in "RANDOM", so it is not the same for each game... Historical progression for each civ IRL can be used.

      Bell,
      After reexaming you Preq pt. system (with your helpful description), I must say you have won my vote.

      SnowFire,
      I agree that diffrent techs should have diffrent difficulties for research, but hopefully if a teck leak system is added, no post-industrial civ would ever be w/o pottery.

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      • #48
        Octopus,

        Would you be interested in starting a FUTURE TECHNOLOGY thread? If not, EnochF is interested. Thanks.

        ------------------
        CIV3 DEVELOPMENT LIST COORDINATOR

        **(un)Officially Making Lists for Firaxis Since SMAC Enhancement 3!**
        I've been on these boards for a long time and I still don't know what to think when it comes to you -- FrantzX, December 21, 2001

        "Yin": Your friendly, neighborhood negative cosmic force.

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        • #49
          What about great thinkers and scientists? Consider all the historical personalities that have contributed, individually, to our own progress.

          These could pop up randomly, or as rewards - you get a Tesla and your production / power goes up. You get a Pasteur and population / happiness / food goes up. Socrates, your Academies get a bonus, etc., etc.

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          • #50
            This thread should be CLOSED. Please continue in <a href=http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000038.html>TECHNOLOGY (v1.2) Hosted by Octopus</a> where I have posted a summary of all suggestions to date.


            ------------------
            CIV3-THE MASTER LIST-TECHNOLOGY "THREAD MASTER"
            "Can you debate an issue without distorting my statements and the english language?"
            -- berzerker, August 12, 1999 04:17 AM, EDT, in Libertarianism and Coercion

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            • #51
              Snowfire: At last a rational mind in this thread. Thank god.

              Yeah, I like the idea of having discrete values to the levels of tech - just like city improvements take a certain number of shields to build.

              To counter problems with this, I suggest that maybe there be a limit set on the maximum number of points your civilisation can generate per turn - reflecting the fact that putting 100% effort into science results in no more result than 30% - once you have all the good minds and required structures, it still takes time to process the math.

              This limit is of course a floating one, increasing according to population, and possibly some city improvements or wonders.


              To everyone else: PLEASE! This is a game! The system must be simple and have a large degree of choice (enforced choice - not just 'check all the boxes' stuff) to it - if the player is not in control, it becomes uninteresting no matter how realistic it seems. Keep it FUN.

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              • #52
                Congratulations, Octopus, on reaching 'lock-down-dome'!

                ------------------
                CIV3 DEVELOPMENT LIST COORDINATOR

                **(un)Officially Making Lists for Firaxis Since SMAC Enhancement 3!**
                I've been on these boards for a long time and I still don't know what to think when it comes to you -- FrantzX, December 21, 2001

                "Yin": Your friendly, neighborhood negative cosmic force.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Octopus: On technology diffusion, that is exactly the effect I am proposing. With greater diplomatic and economic contact, it should be easier to discover a technology that has already been discovered by the nation with which you have contact. Additionally this system could interface with the proposed boolean or point based prerequisite technology system, thereby allowing a nation to skip some prerequisites. With Bell's Crossbow tech example:

                  Technology: Crossbow (12points)
                  Prerequisites: Longbow (6pts), Composite Bow (6pts), Spear (3pts), Sling (3pts), Diplomacy [(Diplomatic Contact Level)*(Turns contact has tech)/5], and Trade [(Annual Gold from trade with contact)*(Turns contact has tech)/30]

                  All remainders should be dropped.

                  So if I am the Romans and I have extensive contact with the English. My troops are currently armed with Spears and Slings, but I donot have the Longbow or Composite Bow. The English developed the Crossbow 5 turns ago. I earn 15 gold annually from trade, and we currently have a peace treaty (level 3). So I would have 11 prerequisite points, almost enough to begin researching the tech. Detail:

                  Spear (3) + Sling (3) + Diplomacy [(3)*(5)/(5) = (3)] + Trade [(15)*(5)/(30) = (2.5) --> (2)] = 11 points

                  Then the next turn

                  Spear (3) + Sling (3) + Diplomacy [(3)*(6)/(5) = (3.6) --> (3)] + Trade [(15)*(6)/(30) = (3)] = 12 points

                  So now I can begin researching this technology.

                  Of course all of these numbers will change for playtesting.

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