Spies...who needs them?????

[Jawa Jocky]

AU needs an esponiage course. Then again everyone might skip class.

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Hi everyone. I've got a tip or two, and one question.

The question is this: does distance from your enemy dictate the cost of various espionage actions?

In my games, the cost of most espionage actions is prohibitively expensive. I see a few posts here referring to getting techs cheaply, and effectively, using espionage. In my games, a "safe" operation on this scale generally costs upwards of 3000. By the time I get Espionage (mid-late Industrial era), I might have that kind of money, but I'm saving it for upgrades, either to Infantry or Mech. Inf.

So in other words, I hardly ever use steal technology, steal map, enemy troop position, expose enemy spy, etc. It's just too pricey. In the late game, I would consider it, but if I make it to the late game, I'm at least somewhat ahead in terms of tech.

Here's the tip:

Use propaganda, or rather, don't be afraid to try, when you are at war with a large communist empire. Say the Zulus, in the industrial-modern era, conquer Britain, which borders you. If your culture is sufficiently greater than Zululand, throw around a few hundred to subvert those border cities (which ought to be resisting, unhappy, or tiny at this point). They will join you, at least 75% of the time.

As far as I can tell, for a propaganda mission to succeed, you must at least be adjacent to the city you wish to subvert.

Propaganda has proved useful at times for me in large modern war, though I wouldn't rely on it... it's just an option if I have a large treasury.

But almost all other espionage options are too damn expensive!!!

[minke19104]

Locate Troop position might be useful for locating civ's last roaming galley with settler in Conquest games..

[Konquest02]

I've had a couple of times the AI initiate propaganda in my capital or FP city, which has really little chance of flipping...

Other than that, I usually can buy techs roughly the same amount of gold it would need to steal them... The only disadvantage is that the gold is going to the other civ when buying, but who cares!

--Kon--

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

I don't know... I'm just not willing to spend 2453 gold on Sanitation... especially if there's a dim chance I might not even get it, and start a war...

[Arrian]

I have stopped researching espionage in my games. The only espionage option I feel is worth it is the F3 info you get from successfully planting a spy.

My Industrial Age tech route goes like this:

Steam Power, Industrialization, Medicine, Electricity, Theory of Gravity, Replaceable Parts, Atomic Theory + Electronics from ToE, Nationalism, Communism, Sanitation*, and then beeline for Motor Transport, Radio, Flight (to preserve Colossus as long as possible, unless I don't have it, of course) and on to the Modern Age (also skipping Adv. Flight & Amphib War).

* - I have also put Sanitation in front of Nationalism... it depends. If I have the happiness wonders and luxuries to support my pop growth easily, I'll do Sanitation earlier. If I don't (and am perhaps preparing to engage in a little expedition to go get some extra luxuries), I will go for police stations first, and then double back for hospitals.

-Arrian

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

I never bother with adv. flight or amphib. war either. However, I also never bother with Police Stations. I thought that Universal Suffrage was supposed to make life easier in this sense. But I do note that I can build Police Stations even after US... how often would you say you build police stations, and how helpful are they?

[Arrian]

I always build PS's. They not only lower WW (on top of what Universal Suffrage does), they lower CORRUPTION too, cumulative to a courthouse. It's the corruption reduction I'm after mostly, with WW being a lesser consideration.

-Arrian

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Originally posted by Arrian
I always build PS's. They not only lower WW (on top of what Universal Suffrage does), they lower CORRUPTION too, cumulative to a courthouse. It's the corruption reduction I'm after mostly, with WW being a lesser consideration.

-Arrian

Good God. I had no idea. Now I will build them in (almost) every city. Oy vey. And all this time I thought they were just a puny happiness wonder.

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Er, excuse me, I meant "improvement," not "wonder".

...if only there were a global corruption-reduction wonder...

[minke19104]

exactly how much corruptions do they lower??

Is it the same amount as courthouses?

[Arrian]

I think it's the same as courthouses. So they're pretty powerful improvements, all in all.

Plus, if you beat the AI to communism (given all the stuff I do first, that doesn't happen all that often) you can sell it to them. They love it, of course, and then if they go to war, they will almost certainly go commie.

-Arrian

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Originally posted by Arrian
I think it's the same as courthouses. So they're pretty powerful improvements, all in all.

Plus, if you beat the AI to communism (given all the stuff I do first, that doesn't happen all that often) you can sell it to them. They love it, of course, and then if they go to war, they will almost certainly go commie.

-Arrian

And might I add, it seems much easier to subvert the bastards when they're commie bastards.

(I'm referring to propaganda, during wartime)

[badams52]

My research is similar to Arrian's though I have come to the point where I don't even research communism. Polica stations are nice, but at that point in the game, I'm too powerful for the other AIs and am beelining for spaceship win or MA domination, whichever I'm in the mood for. I'll buy communism from them when they get it.

Using ToE for atomic theory and electonics is a very good strategy cause those techs are high priced. If my ToE is taking too long to build, I'll research sanitation, corporation, etc. in the meantime.

[minke19104]

Except for Americans. They converted to Monarchy in my game instead. Which is pretty damn funny when you think about it.