details of turnplay mechanics

[DaveMcW]

I think you mean: what happens when your food box fills up the same turn you build a granary?

According to the list, the city grows, the food box is emptied, and finally the granary is built leaving no food. I have confirmed this in my games.


Edit: One thing I haven't tested is how much food is left when the Pyramids are built the same turn in an earlier city.

[vondrack]

Re: Re: details of turnplay mechanics

Originally posted by Theseus
So does this mean that if you build a Settler / Worker on the same turn you build a Granary, you get the benefit of the Granary, and are left with half the previous food?

Or the opposite?

What DaveMcW said - even though I have not tested it in my games, I am 100% sure that the pop growth is resolved before production jobs (as the production jobs use shields from newly born citizens). If you complete a granary on the same turn as your city grows, you will end up with your food box empty, not half-full.

I do not think you could build a Settler/Worker and a granary on the same turn...

[alexman]

Originally posted by DeepO
It can only be converted to an entertainer if you have 'Governor manages moods' setting on.

According to my experience (and to vondark's, see his post above) the game sometimes assigns a new citizen to be an entertainer, even though you don't have the governor managing moods.

This is no problem for production loss though. You don't lose the new citizen's production, as the switch to entertainer happens after production is calculated.

[Dominae]

Originally posted by alexman
According to my experience (and to vondark's, see his post above) the game sometimes assigns a new citizen to be an entertainer, even though you don't have the governor managing moods.

Anyone know why?


Dominae

[Catt]

Originally posted by alexman

According to my experience (and to vondark's, see his post above) the game sometimes assigns a new citizen to be an entertainer, even though you don't have the governor managing moods.

Happens to me too, and I have no idea why. I notice this in the very strat game. Sometimes, without an MP unit in my capitol, the city will grow to size 2 and automatically convert pop #2 to asn entertainer. Other times, it will leave pop #2 unhappy but working. All w/o any governor management.

Catt

[DaveMcW]

I think it depends on your emphasize food settings.

[DeepO]

Strange, never saw it. What you describe sounds like a bug, I can only see one other reason for it, and that's when you can't grow (size 6 w/o aquaduct), and an extra worker doesn't net you any shields or commerce due to corruption. But that is hardly common...

DeepO

[Theseus]

Re: Re: Re: details of turnplay mechanics

Originally posted by vondrack

What DaveMcW said - even though I have not tested it in my games, I am 100% sure that the pop growth is resolved before production jobs (as the production jobs use shields from newly born citizens). If you complete a granary on the same turn as your city grows, you will end up with your food box empty, not half-full.

I do not think you could build a Settler/Worker and a granary on the same turn...

Uh, yeah. DOH!

But the answer you both provided was what I was looking for... thanks.

[Catt]

Originally posted by Catt

Happens to me too, and I have no idea why. I notice this in the very strat [sic - should have been "early"] game. Sometimes, without an MP unit in my capitol, the city will grow to size 2 and automatically convert pop #2 to an entertainer. Other times, it will leave pop #2 unhappy but working. All w/o any governor management.

For any who are interested in thinking through the how's and why's, here is an attached zip file (it's not important enough to me to spend any time on it).

The attached zip contains two games; both under standard rules; both on Emperor; both as the French; both one turn from pop growth from 1 to 2; both without an MP unit in Paris; and both without any governor control at all. In one game, pop #2 is converted to an entertainer. In the second game, pop #2 is assigned a tile, albeit as an unhappy laborer.

There are plenty of other "game facts" that are different (precise city outputs, time to growth, surrounding terrain, etc.), but none that one might instinctively say "Aha, that's the key!" (well, at least none that made me say "Aha!")

Catt

[Mazarin]

Originally posted by Catt


Happens to me too, and I have no idea why. I notice this in the very strat game. Sometimes, without an MP unit in my capitol, the city will grow to size 2 and automatically convert pop #2 to asn entertainer. Other times, it will leave pop #2 unhappy but working. All w/o any governor management.

Catt

this happens when the city-borders expand in the same turn when the city grows: whenever city borders expand to enable the use of 21-tile-radius, the governor checks whether there are better fields in the new radius or not and reassigns the citizens even when he's switched off. If the city grows in the same turn, he'll set one citizen as an entertainer. You can see that when you have a surplus of 2 food in your capitol (emperor or deity) and no military police/luxuries for that city: if I have this situation, I always set luxuries to 20% at round 9 to avoid loosing the second citizen's production.

[Dominae]

Mazarin is correct about the border expansion thing: in Catt's scenarios, the one where the city grows the same turn its borders expand generates an Entertainer (the other one's borders do not grow, and so no Specialist). I've confirmed this with a few saves of my own. Good eye Mazarin!

But you're wrong about 1 thing: you always get the production from the extra laborer, even if the governor subsequently turns it into a Specialist. In Catt's scenario, a Warrior has 2 Shields complete, and the city is producing 3 Shields per turn. Another 2 Shield tile is available. When the city grows the next turn, the laborer is indeed turned into an Entertainer, but the Warrior is now at 7/10. This fits with what was said above about.

However, this does not apply to Commerce! In Catt's scenario, there is 37 Gold in the treasury, and you can set it such there is a revenue of 5 gpt. The next turn when the city grows, the treasury is only at 42 Gold, and not 54 Gold as you would expect if Commere and Shields worked symetrically.

Thus, your trick of putting Luxuries at 20% has the net effect of (uselessly) losing 1 Gold. Your city will never revolt, you get the extra production, and income stays the same. You only need to play with Luxuries the turn an unhappy citizen appears (you get 1 "free" turn with an unhappy citizen).


Dominae

[Mazarin]

I wasn't sure about whether I receive the production nevertheless or not, and as I value shields more at this point than gold, I wanted to make sure not to loose anything...but with your explanation I now know better, thanks

So the order is: commerce-->growth-->production-->border expansion. good to know for mm-issues

[Dominae]

Since the Governor picks newly-available tiles from expanding borders, I think the order is more like:

Unhappiness->Commerce->Borders->Growth->Production->Entertainers


Dominae

[Mazarin]

But, as the unhappiness comes from the new citizen, it must be checked for *after* growth...or have I misunderstood something?

[Dominae]

Unhappiness definitely comes at the beginning of the turn, since a city that ends a turn unhappy will always revolt the next turn before anything else happens. I think the Governor steps in later on in the turn phase to check if there are any unhappy citizens, and makes the change accordingly. Silly, really.


Dominae