Unique and Devious Strategy

[Nor Me]

Originally posted by joncnunn
With 1 city in your empire, it doesn't really matter.

At 2 cties, overall corruption / waste is lower under Communism.

Not at all true. There is a distance component in Monarchy that in communism is replaced by a fixed amount. So with 1 city, you are always better off in Monarchy. With 2 cities overall corruption/waste is only lower if they are far apart and there is no FP.
Broadly speaking, the main reason for the difference between Monarchy and Communism in the intermediate range is the shape of your empire.

[alva]

Went to communism once, unlikely I will ever do it again.

[ScipioAfricanus]

Ok - for clarification -

I was playing as germans against french. I captured 14 workers in one square and moved them all to a city pretty far from my capitol, size 6, very little in the way of improvements.

I had a justified war with the french. (they started it)

I conscripted about 6 right off the bat (despite the fact that they were foriegn nationals, i dont know how)

I had the best culture in the world by far.

lead tech by 2-4 techs.

I didnt get a whole lot of dissent, but there was some
I believe this to be a facet of communisms' "one level of corruption" for the whole nation or... wait, i dont think that applies to morale, huh?

Well, thats the game i got the tactic from. If anyone can explain to me how this worked, id be intrigued, as you have all put forth very good arguments for how it could not happen.

and yet it did.

[Fried-Psitalon]

Would this "bumrush" tactic also result in increased war weariness in Democracy/Republic-governed enemies? For having very large foreign armies invading, even if they are all rubbish units? Could be a potential bonus.

[joncnunn]

You can't build a FP with only 2 cities.

Distance compoenant maxes out at 33% corruption / waste.

Originally posted by Nor Me

Not at all true. There is a distance component in Monarchy that in communism is replaced by a fixed amount. So with 1 city, you are always better off in Monarchy. With 2 cities overall corruption/waste is only lower if they are far apart and there is no FP.
Broadly speaking, the main reason for the difference between Monarchy and Communism in the intermediate range is the shape of your empire.

[joncnunn]

WW for Democracies / Republic:

If somebody else declares war on you first, initally you have negative war werriousness. (Overall happiness goes up!)

Every time either side loses a unit outside your cultural boundary, there's a chance that war werriousness will increase.

There's no war werrious effect from having enemy trrops wonder around inside your cultural boundary. In addition, there's no war werrious effect from killing them inside your cultural boundary.

Originally posted by Fried-Psitalon
Would this "bumrush" tactic also result in increased war weariness in Democracy/Republic-governed enemies? For having very large foreign armies invading, even if they are all rubbish units? Could be a potential bonus.

[Nor Me]

sort of dp: I wrote this clicked submit reply and was disconnected. I looked an half an hour later and this post wasn't here?

[Nor Me]

Originally posted by joncnunn
You can't build a FP with only 2 cities.

True. You would have to lose cities. I only mentioned it as a technicality. In practice, if you have 2 cities and a choice between Monarchy and Communism then either you've lost cities or they are close together.

Originally posted by joncnunn
Distance compoenant maxes out at 33% corruption / waste.

That's news to me but how does it help? You need a resonably sized (I'm talking diameter here) empire to have the same distance corruption component in any city in Monarchy as you would in every city in Communism.
So if your empire is small both in terms of diameter and number of cities then Monarchy is better.

[joncnunn]

Corruption/waste under Communism has NO distance based corruption to it.

[joncnunn]

Under Non-Communism:

Each city is also assigned a rank order from the Palace and if you have the FP, it as well.

The lowest rank is taken between the two. Road connection, Court House, Police Station, and WLTPD (waste only) reduce the effective CN. It's then used in conjuction with the OCN and a corruption modifer to determine most of the corruption / waste. (Note that Monarchy / Republic each have less corruption than Despotism, and Democracy still less.) There's no limit on how high this can go, with enough cities, you can have hopelessly corrupt cities on the fridges.

In addition, there's some distance based corruption with this factor maxed out at 33%.

At the end of the process, if corruption or waste was greater than 95%, then it's reduced to 95% corruption on waste.

Communism is different:
There's no distance based corruption.

And instead of assigning a rank from the capital, each city gets assigned a number based on a constant times all cities in your empire divided by the optimum city number. (with a OCN number effective 25% higher if you have a FP. This tends to result in even poor P-FP pairs having less corruption under Monarchy than Communism.)

---

This is the major reason why tightly packed cities tactics doesn't scale well on maps where there is plenty of room to expand.

[Nor Me]

Originally posted by joncnunn
Corruption/waste under Communism has NO distance based corruption to it.

It doesn't but it does have a fixed component which behaves like distance corruption in that it is independant of the number of cities and is reduced by courthouses etc. It is this component that makes Communism worse for 1 city.

[Tattila the Hun]

Originally posted by ScipioAfricanus
Ok - for clarification -

I was playing as germans against french. I captured 14 workers in one square and moved them all to a city pretty far from my capitol, size 6, very little in the way of improvements.

I had a justified war with the french. (they started it)

I conscripted about 6 right off the bat (despite the fact that they were foriegn nationals, i dont know how)

I had the best culture in the world by far.

lead tech by 2-4 techs.

I didnt get a whole lot of dissent, but there was some
I believe this to be a facet of communisms' "one level of corruption" for the whole nation or... wait, i dont think that applies to morale, huh?

Well, thats the game i got the tactic from. If anyone can explain to me how this worked, id be intrigued, as you have all put forth very good arguments for how it could not happen.

and yet it did.

Maybe some of them workers were originally yours, captured earlier, still your natinality?

[Catt]

Originally posted by joncnunn
There's no war werrious effect from having enemy trrops wonder around inside your cultural boundary. In addition, there's no war werrious effect from killing them inside your cultural boundary.

What makes you believe this? This not only contradicts the manual, it defies common game experience and numerous posted test results.

Having your troops in enemy territory or having enemy troops in your territory increases war weariness. Engaging in combat, whether in your territory or not (and whether killing enemy units or not) increases war weariness. While it is unclear exactly how war weariness accumulates and how it affects your empire, it should be indisputable that enemy troops invading your empire and being slaughtered by your forces, even where you take no casualties, adds to war weariness.

Catt

[ScipioAfricanus]

No, im sure that those workers were all french. and i thought maybe it could happen if i had a wonder which could instantly convert, but i dont remember.

does the eiffel tower do this? or at least reduce the time of assimilation?

[alva]

does the eiffel tower do this?

earlier incarnation

And I agree with Catts post...

Long time no see btw , Catt