Why, oh why does the poor AI...

[Dominae]

I thought the AI simply irrigated fewer Grasslands in general. The Workers would then go back and change this if Food was lacking.


Dominae

[alexman]

Nope, in PTW there is not a single AI grassland tile irrigated without a reason in Despotism. If only Soren had coded that in a more general manner to include shields...

[Dominae]

So you're saying that the PTW AI never irrigates Grasslands before a higher government becomes available? So if you set up a test where the AI was lacking in Food to grow, and then gifted it Monarchy, it would only then begin build irrigation?


Dominae

[alexman]

Not never.
It does irrigate in Despotism if either:
a) it needs to bring irrigation to another location that doesn't have fresh water access
or
b) it gets the bonus from irrigating (wheat, game, cattle, wine grassland tile)

And yes, the AI starts irrigating in the standard checkerboard pattern (mine/irrigation) when it gets Monarchy.

[Dominae]

I just ran a test alexman, and you're quite right (as usual!). I did notice some odd things:

1. Immediately upon entering Monarchy, the AI goes back and re-does the tiles, regardless of how "useful" this is. In the screenshot below, the AI replaced most mines with irrigation, even when it was at size 12 already.

2. In the same scenario, the AI never built a Worker! It used the 2 it started with (Emperor level) to improve all the tiles, which took quite some time. I guess the AI obeys a limit on the number of Workers per city.

3. After I gifted Polytheism, Cleo's attitude went from Polite (10) to Gracious (17). Then when I gave Monarchy, it went down to 11. Huh? Does the AI know when the human player is "buttering it up", so to speak?


Dominae

[joncnunn]

I'm arguing that's it's ridicous that there are X number of turns during a war in which they won't talk to you.

I would sugest instead that they always be willing to at least talk, even if all your gold, GPT, techs, and cities would be an insult.

Originally posted by Dominae
So are you arguing that the AI is weak because it refuses peace when cornered, or weak beccause it eventually caves in? I would think that the combination of these two is the main problem, a neither taken alone (although "fighting it out" would make for a better game, IMO).


Dominae

[Dominae]

If they're going to categorically refuse all your proposals, why talk?


Dominae

[joncnunn]

The point of the talk was then to find out that it was the case.

Basicaly, the point is that if the AI is losing a war, there shouldn't be a delay in talking but it should use the peace evaulation formula even on the same turn.

The modifications so that most wars continue to last at least 5 turns, while the AI can get out early when losing & the human is willing to agrree would eb:

For wars whose root cause was that the AI wanted a specific city for luxaries / resources: Early in the war, AI should want the monatery value of that city in addition to what the formula yeilds as long as it's not in it's possesion and it's army is about the same size or stronger.

Wars in which the AI has lost a city, but whose army is stronger, should also want the monetary value of that city back if their army is about the same size or stronger.

For wars started when tribute refused, should result in 2X the value of that tribute being added to what it wants if their army is about the same size or stronger.

For everything else (war started simply because AI had a bigger army or you had a spy that was caught) the standard peace formula would be fine even prior to the first 5 turns.

Originally posted by Dominae
If they're going to categorically refuse all your proposals, why talk?

Dominae

[player1]

The reson why ithat was added in the patch (it was not in original release), is that other way could be pretty much exploitive.

For example AI declares war.
In turn after, since you talk to him and since he's weaker he agrees to peace and gives you some tech and money.


Or even better.
You declare war, and in same turn talk to him and get peace treaty.

[joncnunn]

Yes, the AI should also be trained not to mine tiles that can't benfit under it's form of government.

It also needs trained to irrigate plains/grassland only to alow the city to work more tiles producing shields and/or commerce, and factor in if a Hospital is currently under construction or not.

Within this section the irrigation rules should be to irrigate tiles that naturally produce a shield before those that don't, which result in more shields when under Mobilization and during the GA.

[joncnunn]

1. The Peace Treaty value already caluclates based on precise differences.
I suspect that they'd only give you the tech the next turn in a war where they didn't lose anything if they would have been willing to give you the tech for tribute to begin with.

2. More tricky. But howabout, they also want more money to end a war that you started recently than one that they started.

Originally posted by player1
The reson why ithat was added in the patch (it was not in original release), is that other way could be pretty much exploitive.

For example AI declares war.
In turn after, since you talk to him and since he's weaker he agrees to peace and gives you some tech and money.

Or even better.
You declare war, and in same turn talk to him and get peace treaty.

[vmxa1]

Valid complaints, but consider that not eeryone takes the time to learn how to beat the AI so easily.
If they make it too much better the casual players will be hard pressed to deal with it.
The war bit, I was never fond of, but maybe they could not make it handle all the permutation and it is easier to just make it ignore you for a period of time.

[badams52]

...not research the necessary techs for the "correct" winning strategy

From my dry, hot game vanilla 1.29f civ, it was just me and Russia left. We hit the modern era and Russia researched (in this order):

Rocketry (free for Religious civ)
Computers
Space Flight
Ecology (received by trade with me)
Satellites
Synthetic Fibers (so far so good)
Stealth ????
Amphibous Warfare
Advanced Flight

Looks like Russia was getting techs for war, but they were on the other side of the world and were gracious with me and had an ROP with me and a MPP. While he was reasearching useless techs, I grabbed Fission, Nuclear Power, Lasers, rode down the "previously known by other civs" path to quickly research Synthetic Fibers, Satellites and finaly finished with Super Conductors and off I went.

[Konquest02]

... build the FP in his capital...

I think there is something about the FP taht the AI doesn't get...

The screenshot below was discovered when founding an embassy in my current Carthage game. The Vikings are not an OCC...

[Panag]

Originally posted by joncnunn
Yes, the AI should also be trained not to mine tiles that can't benfit under it's form of government.

It also needs trained to irrigate plains/grassland only to alow the city to work more tiles producing shields and/or commerce, and factor in if a Hospital is currently under construction or not.

Within this section the irrigation rules should be to irrigate tiles that naturally produce a shield before those that don't, which result in more shields when under Mobilization and during the GA.

hi ,

, sometimes the AI plants forests on plains and tundra , but way to slow and way to late , ......

this should be looked into , ...

have a nice day