Ducki does PTW at Monarch - a bit more War

[badams52]

Whoops, didn't have an Iron source...yep 80 gold per. Quite the price I say

[ducki]

I agree I need more workers.
I'm not used to waging this much war, so I'm having a hard time balancing my normal "builder" tendencies - get all possible improvements in all cities - with supporting a military large enough to actually wage a war, not just defend my builders.

I know you can upgrade Warriors->Gallic Swords and I'm pretty sure I upgraded Warriors->Immortals before, but I never played pre-1.29f so maybe that's the patch that fixed that?

I admit I'm really struggling, but this being my first earnest Monarch game, I'm not feeling too bad about the bipolarness of my civ (improvements vs. military vs. workers - hmm.. tripolar?) - if I actually felt this was unsalvageable for me I'd just start anew rather than posting it.

Actually, I wouldn't even be at war now if Japan hadn't been wandering around my lands with Swordsmen and Archers, nearing my capitol and my Japanese slaves - I actually think they were sent to rescue those slaves/P.O.W.s in particular.
In fact, I held off on giving them the ultimatum a bit to see if that's where they were headed, but it got too close to the capitol for comfort.

I should probably find that thread on Corruption, since I don't fully understand it. I will often build a courthouse if I see more than a few of my shields going to waste, but then again, I'm normally in builder-mode, not waging war.

In fact, this is only about my 4th or 5th leader - ever.

Keep it coming guys, I think I'm going to investigate this larger cities building Sistine and see if I can outpace them. If so, I'll likely build an Army, though maybe I'll try to time stealing Sun Tzu's to match me finishing Sistine. Haha, I can hear Abe cussing already, teehee!

[ducki]

Just checked, America is 4 turns ahead of me on Sistine. I can either steal it or ignore it and make an Army.

Decisions decisions.

[vmxa1]

Ducki you are surely not in a hopeless postion. The one thing I hate to do is put shields into a wonder that I am not going to get, so if it is a no go stop the build.
I thought you could upgrade, but I have jumped into so many games that I was not willing to state it as a fact.

[yxhuvud]

warring will take care of your worker problem

[badams52]

If you can't build the wonder yourself, take it later! I'd build the army and see what other thing my capitol could make with all those shields piled up. Maybe Sun Tzu.

[nbarclay]

Originally posted by Tharsonius
and dont forget to use some of them to run arround and pillage like mad behind the lines

The problem with pillaging (especially on standard and smaller maps) is that anything you pillage, you have to rebuild once you actually conquer the territory. Also, every rider out pillaging is one that's not part of the main attack force. My own approach when I'm playing China and have riders is relatively straightforward.

1) Attack.
2) Attack.
3) Attack.

Seriously, I'll gobble up an entire civ (except for island posessions, if any) and then set my sights on the next one until one of three things happens:

1) Musketmen start showing up. (The same goes for samurai, but if Japan is nearby, I make a point of trying to get Chivalry first and take them out before they get to that point.)
2) I run out of reachable opponents.
3) I'm close to Military Traditon, in which case I'd rather hold onto my riders for upgrade to cavalry than risk having them killed fighting.

A few other notes:

- I upgraded chariots to sipahi playing the Ottomans in PtW, so upgrading horsemen to riders shouldn't be a problem if you have the right resources.

- My usual wartime building policy if I can afford it is that my more advanced cities focus on barracks and units while the slower-developing ones catch up on city improvements.

- Letting worker production lag behind is ultimately self-defeating; workers cost a pop unit and ten shields, but think how many shelds each mine they build will eventually give you, and the pop cost is no big deal for cities having happiness problems.

- Are you making good use of the luxury slider? Using the luxury slider to squeeze out extra production when you need it can be really useful (and even profitable if you're a Republic with plenty of roads).

- If America is truly poised to win the race for Sistine (rather than having someone else ahead of them), why not let them build it for you?

Nathan

[ducki]

Ok, I didn't want to blow all my money checking on whether I could beat everyone to Sun Tzu's - plus, I'm militaristic. Building Barracks is one of my very minor issues. I can crank those out about as fast as my best military units, so that's no biggie.

Sistine generates 6 culture per turn and doubles the effect of my already expensive Cathedrals while STs merely saves me a very short barracks build and 2 CPT.

I burned the Leader on Sistine and feel pretty good about it.

I traded Iron to India for Chivalry, some Gold, and 5 gpt. I was the last to get it, so Japan already has some Samurai, but I sent a MedInf in to disconnect their Iron. He'll fortify there and slow down reconnection - I'll reinforce him with an extra pikeman or two.

I upgraded all my Horsemen - yes, all those elites - because everyone else can build Pikes and Knights.

I've got luxury set at 10%, I have 4(i think) luxuries so I'm doing ok. Not great, but ok.

While Aztec and I were beating on Japan, Japan declared war on America (wtf? ) and America declared war on Mongolia.

So, new priorities.
1) Finish out my Alliance against Japan - 4 more turns - by taking at least one more city, maybe two.
2) Workers, Workers, Workers.
3) Cathedrals & Marketplaces
4) More military in order to prune back America before Muskets
5) Elites and Leaders - I'd like an Army, Leo's, and Bach's
6) Forbidden Palace either near my border with America or in the heart of former Japan.


I love the smell of warfare on my keyboard.

[Tharsonius]

Originally posted by nbarclay


The problem with pillaging (especially on standard and smaller maps) is that anything you pillage, you have to rebuild once you actually conquer the territory. Also, every rider out pillaging is one that's not part of the main attack force. My own approach when I'm playing China and have riders is relatively straightforward.

Nathan

with china being industrious and all my slave workers rebuilding isnt such a problem
with "pillage like mad" I dont mean to pillage everything, only where it rearly hurts, 2-4 riders can do this job

in my current game (with china) Japan collapsed after my riders destroyed his iron and most of his luxury supplys
and cutting off the roads to his capital city helps to avoid cultur flips of conquered towns

[nbarclay]

Originally posted by Tharsonius


with china being industrious and all my slave workers rebuilding isnt such a problem
with "pillage like mad" I dont mean to pillage everything, only where it rearly hurts, 2-4 riders can do this job

in my current game (with china) Japan collapsed after my riders destroyed his iron and most of his luxury supplys
and cutting off the roads to his capital city helps to avoid cultur flips of conquered towns

I guess it depends on the nations' relative power and technology. In a situation like Ducki's where Japan already has the tech for samurai, pillaging to interfere with their actually building the units can be quite useful. But if I can, I like to get the jump in tech so I don't have to pillage in order to have superior units.

Nathan

[Theseus]

Do Sistine in another city, and use your pre-build for the HE.

You're doing great btw... I also like the evolution of your posts, here and in other forums.

Also... let's set the record straight: pretty much all of the early units can be upgraded now, with Sword-type units terminating in Guerillas, and Horse-type units terminating in Cavs or the equivalent.

[ducki]

Originally posted by Theseus
Do Sistine in another city, and use your pre-build for the HE.

You're doing great btw... I also like the evolution of your posts, here and in other forums.

Also... let's set the record straight: pretty much all of the early units can be upgraded now, with Sword-type units terminating in Guerillas, and Horse-type units terminating in Cavs or the equivalent.

Thanks Theseus, but too late. I only got the one leader and I'm kinda glad I burned him on the Chapel.

The Second Japanese War went well, though Aztec took more of Japan than I'd like. Funnily enough, Tokie only had the one Samurai and once I'd pillaged his only Iron, he wasn't making any more. I took his northernmost town and his capitol and sued for Peace and a tiny town on a two-square island off his east coast.

I'm falling desperately behind in tech, now - 3 techs plus 2 turns on Invention, but with my "Palace"-build in my highest production town, I should be able to get either DaVinci's or Bach's, assuming I can buy Music Theory for a half-reasonable price. AIs also have Banking and Astronomy and Korea is already building Copernicus' Observatory.

/sigh
So far behind.

I'm rebuilding my Rider Horde and working on infrastructure and city improvements. I've nearly doubled my number of workers/slaves and have done a lot of tile improving around my core cities and a little around my captured towns.

As soon as I have by borders all joined up in ex-Japan and have a Horde of about 20 Riders, I think it's time to hit America, though that might break my trade deals with India, who is on the other side of Abe.
Dang, I forgot about those until just now.

Maybe it's Monte's turn to fall, though I really wish someone would take a bite out of Abe. I've got 18 turns until my India deals expire I think. I guess that gives me time to build my Horde.

Here's a screen of the status (almost) currently. I don't have long left in my GA which is why so many cities are working on buildings instead of Riders.
SAV file will follow in the next post.

P.S. I'm no longer in last place. I think I'm 5th or so.

[ducki]

and the SAV for anyone interested.

[ducki]

Something interesting to point out...
In this game, the AI researched both Chivalry and Music Theory - techs that I thought it was generally believed they set at a lower priority.

Now, Chivalry can be explained by the fact that both Japan and Mongolia probably badly wanted it.

But Music Theory?
Seems the AI has a newfound love for Bach.

[nbarclay]

Originally posted by ducki
Something interesting to point out...
In this game, the AI researched both Chivalry and Music Theory - techs that I thought it was generally believed they set at a lower priority.

Now, Chivalry can be explained by the fact that both Japan and Mongolia probably badly wanted it.

But Music Theory?
Seems the AI has a newfound love for Bach.

My impression has always been that the AIs tend to go for Music Theory fairly quickly after they get Education, although I've never run an analysis on it. Of course I usually have higher priorities for a while, which could skew my viewpoint.

Nathan