PTW - New Stuff, Mysteries, and Thoughts

[Dominae]

Jeff Morris confirmed in the PTW release party chat that there were no significant changes to the AI. The only major additions involved getting it to deal with the new improvements and terraforming options. Specifically, the AI makes a point of destroying Outposts although doesn't build them much itself, but aggressively builds Radar Towers once they become available. Of course, the Worker-buying "exploit" was also fixed. He didn't mention any added aggressiveness in tech trading or science.


Dominae

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by Kizami
Ruins in PTW???

Remains of now gone city. If you raze it it leaves a pile trash on the tile (looks like those in Warlords). You can clear it by making a tile improvemnet such as a road or of course a new city.

[Theseus]

Poor Arrian.

I don;t buy it about the AIs... it 'feels' to different, even with limited gameplay so far. Only two games for me, and some anecdotal reporting here, but I think some significant tweaking has happened (nod to us: build preferences?).

Funny thing... the Firaxis people can only really interface with us and CFC, and I think they like the 'game' of throwing out changes and seeing us react (e.g., the barb uprising thing).

[Dominae]

I have to mention that Jeff wasn't "entirely sure" what changes were made (not his responsibility), he just knew no major changes were on the agenda. Perhaps Soren did some nice tweaking for his own amusement (and ours!).


Dominae

[laissez-faire]

My kingdom for a copy!

[ducki]

Originally posted by Dominae
I have to mention that Jeff wasn't "entirely sure" what changes were made (not his responsibility), he just knew no major changes were on the agenda. Perhaps Soren did some nice tweaking for his own amusement (and ours!).


Dominae

I'd certainly be willing to grant that no major changes were made, but when dealing with something as complex as 6 "AI" systems and a human player, it doesn't take much of a tweak to have serious impact.

So I retract my statement that "serious" changes were made to the AI in favor of saying that the AI is behaving much more "effectively" or perhaps "smartly" in that things are tougher now than they were the day before I installed PTW.


I'm sure any of us could go into the editor and make "minor" tweaks that have "major" impact.

Thanks for pointing that out, Dominae.

[vmxa1]

I have only one complete and a bunch of short runs, and I thought it was a bit smarter, but too soon to be sure.

[Catt]

Jeff Morris confirmed in the PTW release party chat that there were no significant changes to the AI. The only major additions involved getting it to deal with the new improvements and terraforming options.

[. . . .]

I have to mention that Jeff wasn't "entirely sure" what changes were made (not his responsibility), he just knew no major changes were on the agenda. Perhaps Soren did some nice tweaking for his own amusement (and ours!).

It seems like Firaxians (even Soren) always say that very little was done to the AI ("just a few tweaks here and there"), and yet how differently does the game play now compared to 1.07f?

I think my favorite was 1.29f -- "no major tweaks done . . . although the way tech costs are modified by difficulty has changed a little bit" -- this in a chat (nothing in the readme). What were the effects of the changes? 1400's AD spaceship launches long gone; the tech broker strategy seriously challenged; the approach to technology advancement radically changed; strategic warfare changed due to longer periods with specific unit viability; etc., etc., etc. Also of course "a bunch of other little tweaks . . ." in a highly complex system. Don't get me wrong -- I'm currently too busy to play much at all and so have little direct experience with PTW - but I will be surprised if new and interesting AI behaviors don't gradually bubble up into the collective Apolyton knowledge base.

As I said in the PTW forum, even if you don't give a fig about MP, new civs and units, new improvements and worker builds, etc., as long as $30 doesn't bust your family budget / allowance accumulation, you gotta buy PTW just to stay in the commendable and aggressive "AI performance upgrade chain" provided by Firaxis (now that there will be no more patches for stock Civ III).

Catt

[TbTimVa]

I have noticed that promotions come less easily. My
regular warrior had to kill (9) barbarians before receiving
the promotion to veteran status. This rate may be
different in combat against A. I. units. I have only
fought Barbs so far. Without barracks, it may take
quite a while to get elites.

[Master Marcus]

So far, no MAJOR changes about the AI behavior, but many SLIGHT tweaks I noticed so far not mentioned in the PtW 1.01 & 1.04f readme like:

The AI is smarter when trading ( ask more gold ), priorize much more great wonders than before ( Colossus at 1600 BC! and the Oracle by 1000's BC by another civ is something never seen before at Regent/Monarch diff where in Civ III classic the firsts GW were generally made by 800-500 BC.): when everybody has just reached the Middle Ages, ALL of the ancient GW - including GreatWall & HangingGardens - were already made. It seems that it's at the expense of the Ai expansion which seems to be slightly slower, not that much than before at Monarch, but noticeable.

Also, the number of offensive units made by pink civs vs aggressive civs seems to be upgraded, e.g. more gap between the two groups: the Mongols and Carthaginians make lots of them - my military was weak next to them for a very long time - and at the same time, the Mongols were making 2 GW....well, otherwise the new civs are quite well balanced and fitting well with the original ones.

They seek allies when they can also, it's not difficult to be involved in a world war in PtW. With the additions of the new units ( namely medieval infantry and such powerful UU like Galic Swordsman, Numidian Merc, Sipahi...), wars in Civ III are even more attrition-oriented: the player must be patient, and it takes a long time before expanding by conquest on larger maps. You must accept to lose units and make relentless attempts before conquering many cities...same goes for the AI. So far, I like the PtW SP game and it's obvious the team has put the efforts to make the SP almost flawless but at the expense of the buggy MP so far...

[badams52]

You know what I'd like to see, the AI pre-building it's wonders or at least making sure to build them in the most productive city in the empire. Too often you see the GL being started in a city with 4! production. That plus the cascading effect would really make it difficult to out build the AI.

[mrmitchell]

Both Civ and Barb AI are smarter,

I got pounded into the ground on Warlord too but maybe I'm jsut not that experienced.

Here's the Barb part: Yeah, their warriors did turn away. They stopped giving me Elites. The other part is that once they realized I was dead meat versus the Civiliztion AIs they started throwing everything at me almost in perfect harmony with the Civ AI's plans...as though they were working together in concert...

[vmxa1]

That was the first thing I saw the barbs no longer always willing to attack if you had a much better unit. I had an archer out and the barb ran away. The 8 pack of horsemen starting attack a cit and after the pikes killed 4 and had little damage and had been promoted, the rest of the horsemen and a warrior did not come in. I had to send troops to get them.

[Master Marcus]

yeah, in my actual game, three packs of barb horsemen have approached two of my ancient frontier towns WITHOUT ATTACKING. One pack continued its riding and attacked one of my units on the terrain, the other pack seem to have encountered a few turns later arab units. The last pack of 4 finally attacked a weakier town near my capital ( one defender only ).

[ZargonX]

Yeah, I've definately noted the barbarians new strategies. I've chased many of them into the mountains, only to have them show up out of the fog a few turns later down the road a bit and head for less defended territory.