It finally happened!

[alexman]

I have heard the stories.
I have read the formulas.
But I never thought it would happen to me!

The game was going very well. The goal was to win as fast as possible by culture (CF Tourney 2-2). We started in a small island and by 1000 A.D. had invaded Egypt's much larger continent and kicked Cleo out. In the process, we got a Great Leader.

What to do with him... a FP right in the middle of the former Egyptian empire would be nice. We have twice as much culture, and their Palace is on another continent. Look! Byblos is just the right place...

Now we're talking. Our income is three or four times what it used to be. We're rushing temples, libraries, cathedrals everywhere. The goal is to win by culture, after all. The cities close to Byblos are even building Universities!

And then, IT happened. The unspeakable. The worst fear of every Civer. What the Coracles of the World feed upon...

What's left now is a big useless donut continent with a bunch of 1-shield cities around Byblos. And no more leaders to rebuild the palace, even if we break the peace treaty. (see picture).

The obvious moral of the story: NEVER build your FP in a conquered city with any kind of culture. The risk is too great. Raze and rebuild, or build the FP at home from scratch and rush the Palace in the foreign city instead.

[Theseus]

That SUCKS!

How many Egyption nationals were there?

Bah, even then, that's just not right. The FP alone should be enough to prevent the flip.

Anyway, can't the FP be re-built?

[Arrian]

Actually, the moral of the story is WIPE THEM OUT.

But allow me to express my heartfelt sympathy at the cruelty of that culture flip. That's brutal. And I've never had anything quite so devastating.

-Arrian

[alexman]

Arrian, you're right. I thought about wiping them out, and I was going to do that as soon as the peace treaty expired. But I was half an age behind in tech, so I wanted to catch up. Also, the foothold in India's continent was a nice bonus from the peace treaty.

Theseus, the FP can be rebuilt, but there is no more leader to do it with. Byblos had about five Egyptian punks left.

Anyway, it's a good excuse to abandon the game. I didn't have time to finish it in time anyway.

[Arrian]

Impressive conquest from that tiny island start, though.

I do think the FP should nullify the chances of CF, as it is supposedly a "second capitol" for your empire. But really, the error was leaving Egypt alive.

-Arrian

[Theseus]

So you figured that because you had the FP, AND obviously there was no Egyptian incursion on your tiles, AND Cleo's Palace was now on another continent (fer Chrissake), AND Byblos is in the center of the continent and therefore un-attackable, that you could garrison with 1 or 0 troops.

I would have done the same...

Good lesson... those 5 Egyptians should have been garrisoned or poprushed out of existence.

Note to self: pay MUCH more attention to foreign nationals (or to total eradication).

[Arrian]

I normally starve any captured AI towns down to size 3 or smaller (sometimes all the way to 1) if the civ will live on. In the ancient era, this isn't as important, but I almost always poprush a spearman, which normally drops any non-autorazed cities to size 1 anyway. Total eradication is necessary later in the game, when civs have built up more culture.

Anyway, this is a great cautionary tale. Don't play fast 'n loose with the FP!

-Arrian

[alexman]

This is obviously an extreme example, and doesn't happen very often at all.

According to the culture-flip formula, the chance of Byblos flipping would be somehwere around 0.005% each turn. Over the course of 20 turns, the city would have a 99.9% chance of not flipping. Obviously, I was that 0.1%.

I'm a one-in-a-thousand case!

[steven8r]

/Clinton voice: ON/
I feel your pain. I really do.
/Clinton voice: Off/

Seriously, I feel for you. That should never happen.

I learned from a previous campaign, that cities won't flip back, if their nation no longer exists. Take it back!!! Show 'em!!

[Bambul]

Small Wonders

So if you build a small wonder (like FP or IW) and the city it's in get captured, you can build the smal wonder again? I didn't know that.

[Theseus]

I believe so...

Confirmation, anyone?

[korn469]

confirmed

when a city with a small wonder falls to the enemy (by force or culture flip) the lost small wonders become available in your build queue again

[monkspider]

In cities where there is a bit of doubt regarding flipping, I like to starve them down a bit, sometimes all the way down to 1 citizen (I do so dislike that rather barbaric option of razing, so utterly boorish it is). Of course in this situation it was just case of horribly bad luck prevailing against you. Terribly sorry to hear it my friend!

[Lord Merciless]

That's why I always put lots of effort in exterminating a civ. I have an almost paranoid fear of culture flippings.

alexman, have you thought about reloading?

[alexman]

Originally posted by Lord Merciless
alexman, have you thought about reloading?

Alas, of all the games where this could happen, it had to happen in a Tournament game... it's against the rules to reload.