Why won't the AI trade?

[tatterdemalion]

Seems like the AI will usually refuse to trade most of its techs. It rarely wants to trade for luxuries or resources. And I've never seen it agree to trade for cities.

As a test, I offered an AI everything in my trade list, techs, money, cities, etc. It refused to accept any of it.

Irritating.

[Arrian]

It will never accept cities in a trade. This was a change added several patches ago to close an exploit - people were selling useless size 1 cities to the AI for tons of money and tech.

I trade with the AI all the time. Usually it takes a while before they can afford to pay you for things - they need to switch over to republic and build a few markets and libraries and such.

As for selling things to you... well, they are loathe to give up a tech that allows a wonder, particularly if they are the first civ to get it. The more civs that know a tech, the cheaper it will be. Once the associated wonder is build, the price drops even more.

Try researching a different path than the AI takes. After you've played several games, you will get a sense of which way they go in research (I'm still getting the feel of 1.29). Research what they don't, and trade those. Some techs are just more expensive than others (I think the editor will show what each tech "costs"), so you may not get an even trade. Other times you may be able to get 2 for 1 or even better.

-Arrian

[Theseus]

Try to avoid researching either techs already know to AI civs, or what the Science Advisor recommends (which they are probably researching too)... when you are first to research a given tech, IMMEDIATELY start trading it, starting with the richest and most advanced AI civs.

Not in all cases, but in many, you'll be blown away by how much you can get. Be careful though, not to drain the aggressive AI civs dry with very high gpt deals... they get very upset, and declare war to get out of it.

[Arrian]

They don't get "upset" and you know it. They get broke. War is the only option to prevent negative cashflow with 0g in the treasury.

Theseus is right - if you are in no shape to fight a war, don't squeeze every last penny out of the AI (any AI, not just the nasty ones). Drop a few gpt off to make sure they don't go bankrupt. Think of it as a long term investment.

Also, if you're planning on doing a lot of trading, you must keep your reputation spotless. No breaking deals! Be extremely careful about trading luxuries or resources to a civ that is losing a war. If the trade route connection is cut, the AI treats it as a broken deal, despite the fact it wasn't your fault.

-Arrian

[dawidge]

Perhaps a change in basic tactics is in order. If you are trading with someone who is under attack, you should take whatever steps are necessary to preserve the trade. Stand on his roads, keep him from being blockaded, and help defend his capital. Of course, this may draw you into conflict with others, but make *them* declare war by protecting your trade partner. That, of course, is waaay too much trouble for me, but I will spend more time evaluating with whom I want to get into per-turn trades in the future. One of the things that held me back in MT4 was trading oil to the russians when Japan, Germany, France, and America dogpiled on them, sacking all their ports and cutting off their capital.

[Arrian]

Dawidge,

I have only been bitten by it once: I (the wealthy, cultured French republic, aka the Giant Pink Vulture) attempted to prop up the Chinese, who were under attack by Persia. I figured the Chinese would have Riders and the Persians would have knights/immortals. Advantage Chinese. They were about even in size. But Persia began to win, so I sold iron, horses and gifted some luxuries to Mao. But it was too late. Mao was overrun.

-Arrian

[tatterdemalion]

When you say don't break deals, does that mean don't declare war? I assume that the AI's don't appreciate you destroying their units, suing for peace, then re-declaring war a few turns later when you are back upto strength?

[Arrian]

You assume correctly. Declaring war in and of itself isn't TOO bad (it will still lower your reputation, but it's not a terrible offense if you openly & honestly decare war prior to attacking). But signing a peace treaty and then breaking it before the 20 turns is up is much worse.

Breaking a 20 turn deal wreaks your reputation, which will result in the AI refusing to:

- Sell you tech for GPT. Lump sum only
- Buy a luxury or strat resource for lump sum or tech
- Give you a RoP agreement

-Arrian

[Strakorfsky]

Hm, in my own personal experiances with the AI, I have found that if you are supremly more powerful, they will make any trade agreement with you, but vice-versa, they will try and cheat you out of deals, it is really quite simple, make them think you are much more powerful through either culture, military, or even city amount, works quite well in ancient age.