Stuck between rocks and sea

[Kloreep]

I'm looking for help with my first 1.29 game (which also turned out to be one of the worst starts I've had).

The only thing going for me is that I'm playing Warlord, but the rest is bad. I'm playing England, and while London was founded in a nice coastal spot, the rest of this tiny continent (which I share with the Germans) is a worthless mix of desert, mountains, and hills.

I fit two more productive cities into the small area around London, built the Colossus, and I've taken over the continent from the Germans with Archers. I'm building the Great Library and the Great Lighthouse. Also, I just found a bigger (and much better) continent, but I'm not sure what I should do next; I'll post the save.

Any advice from the masters? I suppose I should try to gain a foothold on the new continent, but the way the civs there are expanding, it'll have to be by force. Should I build up a force of Swordsmen? Wait for Knights and the Great Lighthouse? (Without the Lighthouse, the crossing will be treacherous.)

Edit: I should note that I've modded my game slightly; all units eventually upgrade (Swordsmen and Longbowmen to Riflemen, Cavalry to Modern Armor), and most experience levels have better retreat chances.

Edit: Removed outdated save. See below for latest save.

[Velociryx]

Can't look at the map from work, but my vote would be to at least get a toehold on yonder continent now, while the getting is good.

Trecherous crossings = at least one sea zone....that's bad news....I'd make the lighthouse a big priority and get a settler team over there, even if the city's positioning sucks wind. More if you can manage it, but at least one. Build walls and a barracks, and hole up to await further developments. Once you get reliable trannies that won't sink trying to get guys across, start ferrying a big lotta troops over there.

If your culture is strong compared to your rivals, and your borders are pressing hard against his, then foot troops will be okay for a conquest, but horsemen are fasters....I'd be building some of both, and use the swordsmen as defenders when you take over cities.

-=Vel=-

[phunny_pharmer]

I have never tried this myself, but I was wondering-

Let's suppose that you have to cross one square of ocean to get to another continent (you've traded maps to know it's there). You're stuck on an island, like you are. What happens if you load that settler into a trireme, and then stack another trireme on the same square?

Now, if one of the triremes goes down (which will happen 50% of the time), does your settler survive? Does it matter if the settler was loaded into ship #1 and ship #1 goes down?

If so, it would sound like a more secure, but more expensive, way of getting off a desert island. Please don’t take my word for it, because I’m still wondering myself. With that new map editor, this will be much easier to test…

[Kloreep]

Good idea, phunny pharmer; I should have remembered this tactic from the Civ3 Demogame forum. If you're interested, it's something like this: Have two Triremes, one on your side of the sea and the other one opposite, the one on your side loaded with the units desired (of course). All units involved must have full movement.

Just send the carrying Trireme to the extent of its movement, then have the other one move to the same sea square, activate the units to be carried across and load them on the one with movement left, and row them to safety.

Of course, this strategy only works if the sea is short enough that the first trireme can reach a sea square adjacent to coast.

[Kloreep]

I just checked, and the gap between coasts is just one tile too long. Guess I'll have to wait for the Lighthouse. I should probably switch wonders (have London build the Lighthouse, Nottingham the Great Library) so I can cross safely sooner.

I used to scoff at the Lighthouse, but I sure won't say anything bad about it after this game.

I should post some pictures. Here's the minimap:



Here's a zoomed-out shot of the continent I'm on:

[Marquis de Sodaq]

With any luck, your rock is laden with aluminum, coal, and uranium...

Otherwise, get the boats ready!

[Aeson]

I just looked at your save, and Vel is right on. Get the Lighthouse built ASAP, I'd switch London to build it, as it would be finished in just 12 turns, the Great Library is nice to have, but you should be able to grab a tech lead even if you end up not getting it. Build a Settler and some Warriors to upgrade to Swords once you get your Iron hooked up. If you trade for maps (but not contact with Japan), you should still have enough to upgrade several Warriors.

About trading for world maps, it really helps to have the AI's maps and be able to see where you should land and other opportunities (like who has resources, if you can take them out early, ect.). Your map + ~80 gold should do the trick, then you can trade your new bigger map for most of that 80 gold back (or pay out a little bit more for contact with the Japanese, not required though). There is some nice green you will see... which taken advantage of properly will get you much more than your original 80 gold investment.

Your culture is much better than any of the AI's, so you shouldn't have to worry about culture flips at all. You could even start a culture war by placing your city in one of the higher food areas, and then build a Temple and Library quickly. Probably better to wait until you can rush with gold (Monarchy or Republic) before starting that though.

If you can get 2 or 3 galleys by the time you finish the Lighthouse, and fill them up with Swords (upgraded from Warriors), China looks like a good target. Just make sure to take out their Iron city first.

And I'd make peace with the Germans, they are ready to give up all they have for a treaty (Masonry and 45 gold). I'm guessing that you broke some treaties with the Germans previously? In that case don't give the mainland contact with the Germans. The AI shouldn't be able to make contact until Astronomy (without the Lighthouse), and your forces are better used elsewhere right now. If you have been honorable in your conquest of the Germans, then by all means sell their contact around while trading maps, you should be able to get a few techs. In any case, the Germans aren't in much of a position to cause much trouble.

[HazieDaVampire]

at least you have some gems and iron!

[Kloreep]

Update: I switched wonder production to get the Great Lighthouse sooner in London, but lost the Great Library to the Indians as a result. I also found the Japanese to the west of the Chinese and Indians, and the Greeks and Egyptians on their own mini-continent off Rome's coast. They're in almost as bad a spot as the Germans and I were size-wise, but the land itself is a little better. Anyway, they're not going to be a major threat to anyone - even me - unless one of them manages to take over the Roman's holdings.

I then did two stupid things which will probably cost me the game: I tried to wipe out the Germans, which resulted in the loss of all my archers and delayed my swordsmen buildup (with the Archers gone, I had to use them to conquer Germany).

Then the second mistake: I refused a Japanese demand (a very bad mistake; it was only my WM - most of which they had anyway - and ~50 gold); they declared war.

No problem, I thought; I just switched targets from China to Japan. I conquered Nara, Izumo, Tokyo, and Edo, but my army was narrowly defeated in the first Battle for Kyoto. I sued for peace, getting some tech and gold out of it, and retreated to lick my wounds.

Once my seven-strong fleet of transport galleys brought reinforcements and the twenty turns were up, I attacked again, taking Kyoto quickly (the idiot AI had only two units in the city). My plans are to take Kagoshima, Osaka, and Yokohama, then negotiate peace for tech and whatever else I can get. This will leave them only two cities on the continent they North of China that they share with the Chinese.

But the situation isn't good. It's 1120 AD, I'm falling behind in culture, and I have yet to finish carving out an area for my FP on the mainland, much less build the darn 200-shield thing. My plans are to do just that, while using war to expand westward past the former Japanese Empire whenever I can build up the forces I need to. But it'll be a miracle if I manage to stay alive and win the space-race (my only realistic option at this point).

Here's the newest save:

[alva]

If someone gets another kind of start like, could you post it (4000bc). Without! any other info please.
I've been wanting to do a game like that i just can't get a bad start .
Reason is I want do to an Aeson .
but not on the same map since I would allready know too much of it.
thanks

btw: would I then still be able to choose any of the preferences?? (I usualy play emperor)

[Aeson]

How bad? And what difficulty?

[alva]

Originally posted by Aeson
How bad? And what difficulty?

uegh, a challenge and emperor

[Aeson]

Cooked up this scenario in the editor just now. You can choose the civ, difficulty, just the map and the player start is fixed. Uses default 1.29f rules.

I hope this is about the difficulty you had in mind. Should be pretty tough on Emperor, but winnable.

[alva]

Thanks, I'll try it ASAP

[Cort Haus]

{edit} oops, dupe post, sorry.