CIVIII and its impact on OCS

[Christantine The Great]

For my first OCC I think I did fairly good. I got the cultural victory in 1955. The wonders I had:

Oracle
Pyramids
Great Wall
Great Library
Hanging Gardens
Sistine Chapel
Sun Tzu (I was saving up for JS Bach's but I found that no one else was doing it, so I decided to keep it)
JS Bach's

I also had:

Temple
Library
University
Cathedral
Coliseum
Granery

I decided to just play one where Babylon was close to a wheat and a lake instead of two cows.

I was trying for Free Artistry for the Globe, but someone demanded Democracy from me, spread it around, and soon everyone was doing it. I was beaten by 4 turns.

[Geekinstein]

Shouldn't this be called "1CS" and five city "5CS"?

...I get ICS and OCS confused...

...but then, on the other hand, 1CS and ICS looks too close also...

[playshogi]

So far, I haven't been able to win with this strategy on Emperor. My best start was 4 game squares, no river, and I was able to build Colossus, Oracle, Great Library and Hanging Gardens. Ultimately, got Copernicus, but was beaten to everything else. Built Magellan when I get beat out for Newton and JS Bach. At 1315 AD I had 7475 points and 66/turn, but the Aztecs decided to wipe me out at that point. I suppose my biggest mistake was refusing a demand from the Aztecs for Monarchy. At the time, I was 21 turns from building HG and was afraid someone would beat me to it. Big mistake, I guess. Also, it seems if you "accidentally" trespass on AI territory early in the game, they will eventually attack you, too. Another game, I played I reached over 17000 points before losing by space race.
In that game, I caved in to all demands and never trespassed.

[ShuShu]

Play nice...

... and never get into any fights is required unless you have cultured a lot of cities and have a war factory that is...

I hope you weren't trading any techs in the late game when you lost the space race...

because of the culture acquisition maybe the strategy should be called One to Many City Strategy...

[Gaius Marius]

I play strictly OCS - that is, no more cities, even if by culture. This isn't to dis the OCS + culture switched cities variant- I may try it and it is definitely a cool CIV III addition to the OCS game.

But, I do find that wars are sometimes useful. It is the only way to get leaders, and sometimes is useful in a "Let's you and him fight" strategy so that wars slow down other people's development.

Some random notes on OCS wars:

- Basically, I never get into a war with my nearest neighbor unless I can't avoid it. They aren't so bad before the advent of Cavalry makes war more lethal, but before then you need to be concentrating on the next wonder. After Cavalry, especially your neighbor has a tech or resource advantage (which they nearly always do), you will lose.

-Wars with enemies further afield can be fun and profitable, though. Their supply lines are long, and you can usually hold out against the long trickle of units they send (getting hopefully promotions and leaders). If you have the tech, you can hit some of their outlying cities to force a peace treaty as well.

-This can work especially well when a country has to go through someone's territory to reach you. If you see that an attack force is approaching, try to get the intervening power to join in an alliance vs. the aggressor. Almost always the two will end up fighting - and it is very bloody, since the state which you were originally at war with has forces in the third state's territory. This usually ends up in one of the two being effectively eliminated, maybe because some other power intervened as well. When things really heat up, any of the powers at war with you will see you as the least of their worries and likely sue for peace.

Cataclysmic world wars are great for quiet culture building.

[ShuShu]

War is good...

As long as its not your city getting pounded. I hadn't thought of the Fortify the boarders to get promotions trick. I may have to try it.

I also hadn't thought about the pick a fight so you can hire allies to fight it for you trick.

I agree, you need wars to slow down everyone's trading. You just don't want them fought on your 21 tiles of the world...

[playshogi]

The river is extremely important. With it I was able to compete in another try as the Babs. It's 1070 AD and I already have 8304 points and 76/turn. Only 154 turns from victory! (What year will that be?) Right now, the race is to build Newton, but I'm slipping badly in tech. One city flipped to me and using it I built 2 more hoping to culture bomb a few more cities, but not much luck there. These 3 cities are contributing about 51 beakers, so I think that helps.

No, I didn't lose the space race because I traded space techs. I never made it to the 4th age.

Question to Gaius. What level are you playing? How can you take time out to build military if you're trying to win by 1 city culture method?

[Alkis]

The way I play is entirely different. I don't care much about one city challenges. All I am interested in is a lazy way to win (I am also old btw).

I build a settler and the second city builds more settlers eventually. In the game I won as the Babs I was first in technology, population (with just 13 cities) and even military (in the end).

I use diplomacy a lot. A nice way to slow down the AI is to have them fighting each other. You start a war and at some point you leave and let them continue by themselves.

I have a starting location, it's a good one but nothing great. Just in case someone is interested, I will put the file here. Maybe we can play the same position and see each other's strategies.

The starting location has a river and a game and a cow and a wheat but it isn't costal. Our tribe is the Egyptians. Barbarians set to roaming. Standard map, Emperor level. Here it is.

[Gaius Marius]

I have won OCC culture victories on Regent and Monarch. If you check other threads, you'll see that OCC LAUNCH victories have been done on Deity, but I don't know if this has been accomplished in v1.21f.

Anyway, the point is, a limited war strategy works on these levels. It may or may not work on Deity.

Usually the production of my city is large enough that I can produce most units before Cavalry in 1-3 turns. Especially if there is a time when I have no wonder to build, this means that an army can be built quickly.

Also, since usually at least one of the first three resources is missing (iron, horses, saltpeter), it is possible to build large armies of units quickly, trade for the msising resource, and upgrade them. 10 turns of Horsemen @ 1 per turn + some gold = nice Knights or Cavalry army. Same is true for, say, spearmen-musketmen.

[Alkis]

I also heared about OOC launch victories on Deity but they were done under "certain conditions" as far as I know. I dare say that if an honest person plays standard map random settings he will not win one game out of 20 no matter how good he is.

So essentially these players bring about a position that is winnable and then try to prove that it is.

Emperor level, culture victory, conclusions:
This, I think, is possible but not at all lazy. To win a spacerace is a lot easier. In my game as the Egyptians I built a second city, then many workers who were added to the wonder city eventually. I managed to build The Oracle, The Pyramids, The GL and the HG. The Pyramids gave me a golden age which enabled me to build the other wonders. At one point I had 27 shields production (in the ancient age).

Why then am I not satisfied? Because later on I colonized all of my island (yes the starting position is on an island) and I had a position where I was (I am) very strong in everything.

I just entered the modern age (the others are still in the industrial) and I can win a culture victory in another 60 turns or so but (and this is the important point) I can win in other ways too. The simplest would be to build the spaceship. Therefore, going for a culture victory is neither quick, nor easy.

Also waiting for the wonder to be built before the other civs and especially when there are only two turns left can make an old man have a heart attack

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[Alkis]

Just for the record I won said game on 1808 by culture victory. My culture output was 120 per turn. Number of cities 23 IIRC.

Two things I consider important:
1) Have a second city to add workers to the capitol
2) As Shushu said, the game is won in the early stages, so a golden age in the ancient era is desirable.

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[playshogi]

That's a lot of cities! No wonder you think its a lot of work. The best thing about SCC (single city culture win) is you shouldn't have to build so many. I got a (diplomatic win in 1766) with only 6 cities and the 6th city a got by way of culture flip late in the game when I didn't need it. For a long time, I was doing fine with 4 cities until I needed that coal resource 2 squares beyond my border. My handy settler was available when the existing city on the coal square got razed by the AI. I built Colossus, Oracle, Great Library, Hanging Gardens, Great Lighthouse, Sistine, Copernicus, Bach, Newton, Shakes., ToE, Hoover, UN and 3 small wonders.
I never attacked nor was attacked. Maybe, not being attacked at all is a lucky exception? This game was the Babs on Emperor, my first win on that level. I was 5-6 turns away from SCC win when I built the UN and took a chance to win a few turns early.

[ShuShu]

The 1766 culture win...

Is more in line with my pacing. Those of you who are winning in the 1800's or later, I agree a space launch is feasible and quicker.

Alkis, I am impressed that you could win early wonder races on an island, I find I just can't get the techs quickly enough to build them when I cannot trade for them.

Playshogi, a lifetime of peace is not a lucky outcome. I find most of my games happen that way.