Five City Challenge

[solo]

Chris,

Good point about a tiny map. I used one in my first experimental FCC game and did find it easier going than it has been so far in this game.

Another good point about advanced tribes! I hadn't seen one yet while playing CivIII, and this may explain why not! Averaging only 2 or 3 huts per game had kept this illusion of mine alive.

For more details about the discussion leading up to the idea of the Five City Challenge, see Toe Truck's thread:

the link is here

[lockstep]

Originally posted by solo
One minor note about the Forbidden Palace, is that it is allowed with 5 cities on a tiny map, so we may try other games on tiny maps in order to use this feature.

AFAIK, the Forbidden Palace can be built with 50% of the 'optimal cities' number which is defined in the editor for every map size. For tiny maps, this number was 8 in version 1.07, but Firaxis changed it to 12 in version 1.16 due to heavy complaints about unmanagable corruption on tiny maps. (BTW, the number for small maps was also changed from 12 to 14.) So, the Forbidden Palace shouldn´t be available on any map size with only 5 cities 'post-patch'. (I frankly admit I didn´t test this.)

[solo]

lockstep,

I hadn't realized they changed the number of cities for a tiny map, and agree with your assessment that the Forbidden Palace is not possible now with FCC, but as Toe Truck says, it isn't really a requirement, though I could see some situations where it could come in handy.

all,

I just finished playing my game, and was given a real pounding by no less than 4 Babylonian armies after building my 9th spaceship part! So someone else is going to win this one. Just out of curiosity, I went back to a previous save, played it a bit differently, and was able to launch first in 1796, but this partial replay doesn't count, of course. I will post a comparison log of both versions of this game if others are interested. In the meantime, I'll lick my wounds and know what to do differently in the next game.

Incidently, I played with the new patch, and so far it has never allowed me to trade a city to the AI. The only 5 I had were the five that I founded. Has anyone been able to sell off a city after installing the patch? Appears to me this option is gone forever.

[Aeson]

Selling Cities

I don't think the AI will accept any trades that involve taking cities with the patch. I offered the AI 6 techs, 30k gold, and 50+ cities for free and they wouldn't take it. Any deal that I added a city to instantly went to "they would never accept such a deal". I also couldn't buy any cities from the AI. I have still gotten cities from the AI for peace treaties, they just don't talk to me for up to 30 turns before I can make peace, almost impossible to start a war in Democracy now.

[solo]

Here is a log of my game, which was played with the new patch. It was a tough loss, especially after coming so close, but the game was a lot of fun and I learned a lot from playing it.

I did not like the starting location because of the nearby floodplain. Every time I settle near one, my first city is ravaged by disease, but I do want the city on a river, so I explore along this one heading northwest away from floodplains. I notice some dyes while moving my worker. A cluster and I would have taken a chance and started right here, but for only one luxury, I didn’t want to risk disease early in the game. Maybe with another city later, once the capitol was established. By 3600 BC my settler finds a warrior in a plains hut next to the river. The worker starts on a road leading to a cluster of incense discovered just north.

BC years

3600 Persepolis founded, AI contact, trade masonry to Babylonians for ceremonial burial,33g

3400 warrior
3150 warrior
2950 warrior
2500 settler

I built a bunch of warriors to look around for 4 other good city sites. The new patch makes an early military rush harder. The AI starts with extra units and settlers are usually accompanied by spearmen instead of warriors, making it harder to ambush them. Size 1 cities are always razed after capture now, too, so I decide on peaceful expansion instead, using my warriors to blockade AI settlers heading towards spots that I want for my own cities. I just missed sealing off the narrow bridge between the Babylonian peninsula and my part of the continent, but was able to block Bab settlers enough to get most of the city sites I wanted.

2430 Pasargadae founded on the coast north of Persepolis helping to keep the cluster of incense under my control

2230 Pas - warrior
1790 Mysticism, 100g to Babs for warrior code
1690 Per - temple, Pas - settler
1525 Per - settler, Susa founded on a coastal hill next to a river southeast of Persepolis, just in time before a Bab settler reached the same area. Blocking with warriors made it possible.

1475 Arbela founded on grass northwest of Persepolis, cornering the incense market and grabbing another prime city site before the Babs could reach it. The other one I wanted near some wheat was taken by them after passing by Arbela, so for the last city, I block off the area near that single dye luxury found near the starting position.

1375 Per - worker
1350 Arb - warrior, incense,80g to Babs for alphabet
1250 Susa - warrior
1200 Arb - warrior
1025 Ai contact, 95g,wmap to Americans for writing,pottery
950 Per - barracks

My plan after building a bunch of warriors was to upgrade them into immortals when I had some iron, but found out later in the game that an upgrade to an UU is not allowed. I couldn’t upgrade warriors to swordsmen either, since immortals replace them as units. Oh well, so much for this grand plan for getting a lot of cheap UU’s.

925 Pas - temple, AI contact Zulus, contact with Amer,Babs, wmap to Z for wheel,literature
850 Incense to Babs for iron working,1gpt

I always conclude every trade to the AI with a small gift of gold, to keep relations happy, but will not list these gifts in the log.

825 Pas - worker, AI contact, 45g,wmap to Aztecs for horseback riding,tmap
775 Per - settler, Arb - temple
725 Polytheism
710 Antioch founded on a hill next to the single source of dyes southwest of the capitol, which is now surrounded by 4 good cities, for a total of 5. I retained these five for the rest of the game. Well, until they were demolished by the Babylonians near the end.

690 AI contact, 55g to Iroquois for code of laws
610 Susa - temple, Arbela - library, 40g to Babs for philosophy

Got to get that culture started in satellite cities to get those borders expanded. Except along the coasts, I was surrounded by Bab cities oozing with enough culture to swallow my tiny towns if I dallied. Library first in Arbela because it was the cheapest culture item to build. Two kinds of domestic luxuries keep small cities happy a long time.

570 Arb - worker
470 Map Making

I keep just enough science on to keep the countdown going. You can get a surprising number of techs by research, because many turns are chopped off the learning curve when all the others learn something before you. It saves precious gold to trade for vital techs.

410 Per - library, Pas - library, Arb - barracks
390 Incense to Babs for currency,1gpt
370 Pas - worker
330 Susa - library, Arb - immortal

Yes, I discover that if I want immortals I must build them from scratch. At least all those warriors help keep folks content and lend the illusion that I have a lot of defenders.

310 Ant - library, incense,30g to Iroq for monarchy, dyes to Babs for 6gpt
290 Per - immortal, Arb - worker, 35g to Z for contact with Germans
270 Construction, 30g to Ger for worker, revolution
210 government to Monarchy

I want to grow and speed up my own research a little and just get along and trade with the AI. No pop rushing was used in this game, so goodbye Despotism.

190 tmap to Aztecs for 12g

In this game I was doing something new by trading my own maps to the AI. In previous games, I had been careful to guard my own maps, and was never attacked, lending credence to a theory of mine that the AI need a map to attack. Later on in this game I was attacked. Hmmm, could a solo theory be right?

170 Iron to Babs for ivory,Russian contact,feudalism,theology,2gpt

In the early game the AI will almost give as much for a special resource as they do for a city, so even if I only have a single supply I will trade it for some goodies, before the AI connect roads to their home versions. My warrior to immortal conversion strategy was out the window, so I adapt.

150 Pas - galley, tmap,17g to Americans so they will like me

The galley was a waste. I made contact with the other AI before it could sail around the corner of my own continent.

190 Susa - barracks
50 AI contact, wmap,45g to Russians for engineering
30 Iron,incense to Z for silks,invention,republic,tmap,5gpt

Life is sure easier with 5 cities when you have some things to trade with vs. OCC where you are quite limited in this department. By the end of the BC years I have almost caught up to the AI on the tech tree. Wonders were still out of reach, being built before I even discover prerequisite techs, but my plan was to try for Isaac Newton’s for science and Hoover Dam for industry to trigger a golden age later on. In the meantime, I just wanted to grow and trade, trade, and trade some more to catch up in techs. I put the priority on wealth now, building marketplaces and later, banks, to finance tech purchases and future research.

AD years

10 Ant - temple
30 Incense to Amer for 4gpt, incense to Babs for tmap,4gpt
110 Incense to Iroq for tmap,5gpt, dyes to Babs for tmap,6gpt
150 Education, Per - marketplace
190 Pas - marketplace
210 170g to Iroq for astronomy
230 Iron to Babs for music theory,chivalry,tmap,ivory,3gpt, Music theory,chivalry,horses to Ger for tmap,14g,19gpt, Wmap,50g to Amer for 2 workers, Music theory,astronomy to Z for wmap,9g,4gpt
270 Susa - marketplace
300 Ant - marketplace, 420g to Rus for banking, Banking to Amer for gunpowder, Banking,gunpowder to Ger for 58g,6gpt, Banking to Babs for 7gpt, Banking to Z for 3gpt

With a good income I can afford the latest advance and wheel and deal it for extra gold per turn, catching up to all of the AI except the Babs who always seemed to have 2 or 3 techs I lacked and couldn’t afford. Getting Newton’s first seemed less likely if the Babs got to atomic theory first. Now I am able to jack up science for research while still receiving a steady and substantial income. Just about this time the hapless Americans were wiped out by the Iroquois, who always seem to dominate the continent they start in and become the major force in most games I’ve played so far that include them.

320 Iron,incense to Z for silks,27gpt
330 Per - university, Arb - marketplace
340 Salpeter,incense to Babs for 24gpt, 110g to Ger for economics, 270g to Rus for printing press to Ger for 1g,1gpt
400 Chemistry, Incense to Iroq for 12gpt, 590g to Z for Metallurgy to Babs for navigation,80g,3gpt, Metallurgy to Ger for 8g,8gpt, Metallurgy,dyes to Az for 18g,12gpt
410 Pas - aqueduct
420 Ant - aqueduct, Susa - colosseum
450 Arb - aqueduct
480 Physics
530 Ant,Pas,Susa - banks, incense,380g to Z for military tradition,6gpt, Military t to Rus for 30g,7gpt, Military t to Ger for 40g,2gpt
540 Arb - granary, Incense to Babs for 25gpt
550 Pas - granary
570 Per - granary, Arb - university
600 Theory of Gravity, Ant,Susa - granaries, Dyes to Az for 9gpt, Incense to Iroq for 15gpt

I am too late here, as the AI are already building Newton‘s, so my only hope for a science triggering wonder for the golden age is evolution. I lag just behind the tech leaders. About this time the Iroquois knock off the Russians. Only the Aztecs are left on their continent.

660 Magnetism, Ant - university, 130g to Ger for democracy
670 Susa - university
690 Per - colosseum
710 Pas - colosseum
750 Incense to Z for 9 gpt, Incense,600g to Babs for steam power,19gpt, Steam power to Iroq for 2g,12gpt
770 Arb - bank
780 Susa - cathedral
800 Susa - courthouse, Incense to Iroq for 23gpt, Dyes to Az for 15gpt
820 Medicine, to Az for 60g,24gpt, Medicine to Iroq for 60g,17gpt
840 Per - cathedral, 660g to Babs for electricty to Gers for Free artistry,30g,44gpt, Electricity to Z for 70g,35gpt, Electricity to Az for 60g,22gpt
860 Susa - harbor
890 Ant - cathedral
900 Arb - colosseum
920 Ant - barracks
940 600g to Iroq for Sanitation, 590g to Az for industrialization, Sanitation to Ger for 30g,6gpt, Incense,300g to Z for Communism,10gpt, Incense to Babs for 21gpt
960 Pas - cathedral
970 Ant - rifleman
980 250g to Z for coal
990 Susa - factory, Arb - cathedral, dyes,360g to Az for replaceable parts,16gpt
1010 Scientific Method

Now I am building Theory of Evolution and thought for awhile that I might get it, but the Iroquois started it in their capitol, Salamanca, and beat me to it. Too bad, as the 2 techs would have given me my first tech lead of the game and the science requirement of my golden age would have been fulfilled.

1040 Per - factory
1090 Per,Susa - hospital
1110 Pas - factory, 1250g to Iroq for Corporation,coal, Corporation to Az for 14g,19gpt, Corp to Ger for 30g,17gpt, corp to Z for 40g,7gpt
1120 Arb - factory
1130 Ant - factory
1140 Per - infantry
1160 Arb - hospital, 225g,incense to Bab for espionage,22gpt
1170 Per - infantry, Pas - hospital
1180 Arb - courthouse
1190 Ant - hospital
1200 Atomic Theory, to Iroq for 870g, 9gpt, Atomic,incense to Z for 180g,20gpt, atomic to Babs for 810g,10gpt
1220 Ant,Arb - infantry
1230 Per,Pas - harbor
1260 Per - artillery

At this time, the Iroquois took out the Aztecs, and control all of their continent.

1280 Per,Ant,Pas,Arb - artillery
1295 Ant,Arb - infantry
1300 Per - infantry
1315 Electronics, 1150g to Iroq for steel, Steel,electronics to Ger for wmap,140g,27gpt, Steel to Z for 3g,4gpt, incense to Babs for 23gpt
1355 Susa - Hoover Dam

Finally a wonder to call my own. Not really the efficient thing to do, but keeping this one out of an AI’s hands is always a good idea.

1360 Incense,electronics,185g to Z for refining,9gpt, revolution
1380 government to Democracy

I think I should have done this earlier in the game, but did not want to interrupt the races to wonders I was trying to get. There is a wait until SETI, which I want next, so I switch to Democracy which lets me compete in discovering techs first.

1425 Zulu destroyed by the Iroquois, and now there are only three of us others left.
1435 Radio, to Babs for combustion,2029g,oil, Combustion to Gers for 30g,10gpt, Radio to Iroq for mass production,13gpt, 3925g to Babs for flight, Flight to Iroq for motorized transportation,7gpt
Fission, to Babs for 3934g,coal,horses, Fission to Iroq for 20g,90gpt

The most productive turn of trading in the game, as the switch to the Modern Age gave me Fission for free which commanded top dollar from the Babs and Iroquois. Buying flight from the Babs was expensive, but help trigger fission with which all the price of flight and more was recovered.

1445 Per - Wall Street
1470 Motorized t to Ger for 20g,2gpt, Incense,1900g to Babs for rocketry,17gpt
1535 Space Flight safely stolen from Babs for 3235 gold, Space flight to Iroq for aluminum,250g,90gpt

I save espionage money for critical situations, and I didn’t want to be too late to this critical tech.

1540 Computers, and I am first here so can build SETI.
1545 Pas,Susa,Arb - research labs
1575 Ant - Apollo Program
1580 Pas - SS docking bay
1585 Susa - SS cockpit, Per - SETI program, beating the Iroquois to it
1590 Ant - research lab
1595 Arb - SS engine, Per - research lab

Now with all science improvements and SETI in place I am getting about 525 beakers and advances are coming every 16 turns, putting me on par with the AI research speeds. I’m feeling confident of a spaceship win here.

1600 Iroquois declare war, Computers to Babs for MPP,70gpt, Fission to Ger for MPP,10gpt

I’m floored, as I was keeping the Iroquois polite with gifts and busy with trades. The Germans were still left, quite weak, and ripe for the picking. Looking back I try to think of clues as to why I am chosen, instead. Perhaps beating them to SETI triggered this. Maybe building Apollo and some SS parts so quickly has unnerved them. Maybe gouging them for so much gpt for Space Flight. 90gpt IS rather high. Maybe I am closer to their attackers. And maybe it’s because I gave them my maps way back at the beginning of the game. So with only token defenses, I align quickly with the other two and hope for the best, and build defenses I should have worked on more diligently years before.

1605 Per - SAM missile battery

The Babylonians and Germans both declare war on the Iroquois. In the next few turns Iroquois bombers and ships go on the rampage bombarding many improvements, but the Babylonians saved my you know what by rebuffing the Iroquois land attack aimed at Antioch. Without their help, I was a dead duck.

1610 Ant,Susa - infantry
1615 Per,Pas,Arb - infantry
1620 Ant -infantry, Ecology, to Babs for superconductor,10gpt

I trade a new tech right away to my MMP partner, but have the presence of mind to get a little back in return while he fights my war.

1625 Per - artillery
1630 Ant - artillery, Susa - infantry
1635 Pas - barracks
1640 Per,Ant - artillery
1645 Pas - barracks again!, Arb - SS fuel cells
1650 Per,Ant,Susa - artillery, Incense,ecology to Iroquois for peace,aluminum,25gpt

Peace! The Iroquois finally answer the phone and we arrange a profitable peace treaty, with me getting far more than I expected. Now I think I can cruise to a spaceship win.

1675 Per - mass transit
1690 Pas - mass transit
1695 Ant - SS life support
1705 Superconductor to Ger for horses,wmap,3g,5gpt, Incense to Babs for 18gpt
1710 Synthetic Fibers, Satellites, safely stolen from the Iroquois
1715 Per - SS stasis chamber, dyes to Iroq for furs,spices,gems,wines,31gpt

1725 Ant - SS storage supply, Babylonians declare war!

Oops! I am surrounded by Bab cities just chock full of the newest and shiniest new military hardware. All I need are two techs to build SS planetary lounge, my last SS tech and my hero and MPP buddy has turned against me for no apparent reason.

1735 Per,Pas - mech infantry, Susa - SS exterior casing
1740 Babs take Antioch and Susa, Arb - SS thrusters
1750 Babs take Arbela.

I sort of desert cities as they completed SS parts hoping to make a last stand in my capitol by concentrating all defenders there, since only 1 SS part is left to be built.

1752 Per - modern armor
1754 Pas - mech infantry, Great leader Darius appears when an elite defender in Persepolis wins a battle.
1756 Pasargadae taken by the Babs
1760 Peace offered by the Babs!

Great! Now I have a chance again, if I can only last long enough to research the rest of nuclear power and the laser. Darius can build the planetary lounge in 1 turn, if needed.

1762 Hydro plant
1766 saltpeter to Babs for 37gpt
1768 settler
1770 Pasargadae refounded
1774 Pas - harbor, Incense to Iroq for 16gpt, oil to Ger for aluminum
1782 Per - settler
1784 Arbela refounded, Iroquois declare war again!
1786 Babylonians declare war again and take Arbela!

At this point I went into civil disorder, and my Democracy collapsed into Anarchy. I also clicked on build by mistake and used up precious Darius to build a cheap item in Persepolis. 4 Babylonian armies were zeroing in, so I quit, just about 20 turns away from that last SS part and a winning launch.

Earlier in the game, during the peaceful period after the first Iroquois attack I had quit playing and had saved the game in 1700. This was before the first Babylonian attack, so I decided to reload and play it over, trying a few different things. I was successful in the replay, which I will detail in the next post here.

[ToeTruck]

Excellent Log Solo

Solo:

Thanks for the excellent log and sorry about your first-try loss. I'm *very* interested in your replays, though.

I'm on my first pass through and just now made contact with everyone in 1375BC (with lots of gold and a huge mortgage). We'll see if that pays off.

Drenasu:

Excellent job on the 5CC 1425AD launch. I haven't played many tiny map games, but I'm mighty impressed.

Thanks everyone for giving this a shot. I've had a bunch of fun so far.

- TT

[solo]

This is my replay of the moves starting at 1700 AD. It does not count for the competition, but I thought some details as to what was done differently might be interesting to other players.

In the original game, I did not pay much attention to the other AI after negotiating peace with the evil Iroquois, because I was so close to getting that last tech needed to finish my spaceship, so when I reloaded the 1700 save, I noticed that the attitude of the Babylonians had changed from polite MPP partner into neutral and “annoyed” neighbor. In contrast, my other MPP partner, Germany, was still polite and the pact was still in place. Why one relationship was cancelled and soured compared to the other was a mystery, but I must assume that my action of making peace with the Iroquois, who the Babs had joined me in fighting, left them holding the bag, so to speak, as they continued that war alone for quite a few more turns. I guess my peace treaty with what had been a mutual enemy turned the Babs against me. So in the replay I made efforts to repair the damage of this “betrayal” and took some other steps which I thought would help prevent any more sneak attacks by the AI, and I will list them next:

1) I gave gifts of gold to the Babs to raise their attitude up to polite right away. While doing this, incidently, I noticed that when gifts totaled 10 gold, their attitude went up a notch. This may be a general rule, I will have to test some more to see. Each turn I rung of the Babs again, to check their attitude, and each turn it slipped down a notch or two, so I kept monitoring this and repeated 10 gold gifts, as needed, to bring it up to polite every turn. During this period a large Babylonian army (which had attacked me in the previous game) moved along my borders and finally disappeared south of Antioch. Although these gifts are not noted in the log, they occurred every turn, and they did accompany other specific trades with the Babs. In each of these I was careful not to ask for more than what was offered in any deal, just to make sure my greed did not provoke them.

2) This lenient trading policy was applied to the other AI, too. I was so close to the finish line, I just accepted any offer they made. Their attitudes remained polite, so I just added in the usual gifts to conclude each trading session.

3) I delayed building the 9th spaceship part until the last turn of the game when I also finished the 10th, to create the illusion with the AI that I had more work to do in that regard then they might think.

4) I built more modern military units and also fortified any mountains next door to cities. In the original game I had skimped a bit in this regard, often having cities creating wealth instead, to save up some gold to be used in case I needed to steal the last tech before I could learn it.

5) I held my breath waiting for 20 turns to go by so I could let my MPP with Germany expire. I was afraid either of the other dangerous two AI might start a war with Germany and drag me in. This turned out to be an excellent idea, as soon afterwards, the Babs did declare against Germany, rather than attack me, as they did in the original game.

6) So with all these precautions in place, I still got a few thrills when noticing humongous stacks of Bab modern armor and two or three of their armies cross through my land on their way to engage the Germans. I did not dare demand a withdrawal, as during these anxious moments I was only about 10 turns or so away from learning Laser.

The replay log follows, concluding with a launch in 1796. In a way, I am happy with the failure of the original try, because now I know that there are steps that can be taken to prevent, or at least lessen the odds, of a sneak attack by the AI. They are certainly not pre-ordained, and may be prevented if the warning signs are detected early enough.

1700 Resumed game as a replay
1705 dyes to Iroq for wines,horses,31gpt, 270g,1gpt to Babs for dyes,silks

In the trade to the Babs, I actually added in the 1gpt, hoping this per turn payment would help keep them peaceful, for if they started a war, these huge payments would stop.

1710 Synthetic fibers
1715 Per - SS stasis chamber
1725 Ant - SS storage, Susa - SS exterior casing, Arb - modern armor

I let out a little air from holding my breath, for this was the turn of the Bab sneak attack in the original game.

1730 Per,Ant - modern armor
1735 Arb - modern armor
1740 Ant - modern armor, Susa - mass transit
1745 Arb - modern armor
1752 200g to Iroq for furs, Ant - mech infantry, Susa,Arb - modern armor
1758 Ant,Susa - mech infantry
1760 Susa - coastal fortress
1766 Nuclear power, Nuclear power,260g to Babs for satellites, nuclear power,incense to Iroq for spices,coal,wmap,410g,aluminum

Note that when I learned nuclear power I made sure to offer it to the others right away, rather than hold it back and risk causing offense by doing this. I also needed aluminum from the Iroquois.

1768 Pas,Susa - battleships
1776 410g to Babs for silks,dyes

Another trade I started to keep their “thoughts” on commerce instead of aggression. Soon after the Babs declared war on Germans. Yippee!

1794 Laser
1796 Per - SS planetary party lounge, Arb - SS thrusters, launch

Attached is the save. Forgive me for “accidently” deleting the save of the end of the original game!

A final note on those Persian workers. Wow, they zip! I only had 10 workers during the whole game and was still overstaffed.

[photar74]

I lost and did not come as close as Solo. Even if I was to replay moves from any point in the game (except, maybe the begining) I still would have lost. I doubt that I could have built up a war machine capable to lays the gigantic Zulus or Irigquois to waste. I did manage to build 7 parts of my spaceship before the Irigquois launched around 1500, but I still had four techs to go before I could build the other 3.

I think my biggest rpoblem was that I decided to use the early Immortal rush strategy ala the OCC games I had been winning recently. I figured that I could just build Persepolis at the 4000 BC starting location, never build a settler, use iron that I hoped would be on one of the nearby hills to build Immortals, and then proceed to flatten anyone nearby. However, while I did (eventually) flatten the Babylonians, it took MUCH longer than I had hoped for, since there was no iron in the starting location. The Persians without iron are almost exactly like a gun without bullets--potentially deadly but ultimately ineffective. I ended up having to take a Babylonian city with iron in its city square by using Archers. Then, when I did start attacking with Immortals and crushing the Babs, the other civs were so far ahead that even making the Babs give me everything they had still left me signifcantly far behind. The money I built up proved to be more or less inneffective at ever achieving a tech lead. This was largely because I had to fork over a tremendous amount of it to purchase any new techs because the AI civs were generally either annoyed or furious at me for constatnly breaking treaties with the Babs and Iroquios.

Around 1000 AD, I did manage to draw ahead of the other civs in techs for a while when I built Theory of Evloution with a leader I had sitting around since ancient times. This allowed me to think that I was going to win the game. However, in the Modern era, my hard-fought tech lead slowly dissappeared after I discovered Fission. Eventually, the other civs were charging way too much money for techs for me to keep up with them. It was the price I had to pay for being such a bastard throughout the game.

Finally, this was the first game I played with the new (1.16) patch. I have to admit that the computer is far more difficult in this version. They bargin harder, are less willing to talk to you during war, and they get angry with you faster if you act like a jerk.

My hat will go off to anyone who is actually able to ahieve this thing. My hat goes off to Solo for coming as close as he or she did.

[solo]

photar74,

I'm wondering how many cities you ended up with. I'm assuming you kept 4 of the Babylonian cities you took when you went after them. How long did it take to subdue the Babylonians?

By the way, a key to my replay win was the fact that the AI backed off quite a bit on research during and after the Industrial Age. At the end, with SETI and all science improvements I was getting techs every 16 turns at 90% science. I'm wondering what kind of pace you were managing then.

Before the patch, early military rush was the easiest way to go on deity, but now I wonder. I hope some others who are playing will supply more information on which strategy works best.

[ToeTruck]

Well, here's my log and final save game.

I had to restart once after losing Susa to Bablyonian Culture. I was a real moron to let that happen. But, the restart led to a 1645 launch thanks to 3(!) leaders.

I think good launch dates are quite possible under FiveCC (and even OCC), but there are a lot of tactics to master along the way.

Sorry it took me a zillion years, but the holidays were *not* a good time for me to play.

If anyone wants to post another starting position, it a shot. Thanks Solo for the excellent idea.

- TT

[solo]

Wow, very nicely done, TT. I will study your log in depth, and will reconsider a more aggressive strategy. Three leaders sounds quite good. Were they vital to your success, or do you think you could have won with fewer or none?

During the holidays, server problems pretty much closed down these forums. I'm wondering how others who tried FCC have fared in their games. Maybe we should wait a while and see if others check in before starting a second game.

[ToeTruck]

Thanks, but...

I can't claim any exceptional skill on this game; I'm sure anyone out there could beat this launch with the start I had. Besides the three leaders, I snagged a Settler in the hut.

My restart occured ~550AD. The Babs had a bunch of units in my territory, but I ignored them first time around. In 600AD or so, I lost Susa and figured I was pretty much screwed. My restart led to war and a third great leader.

The other two GL's came in the Middle Ages; I kept at the Babs pretty hard by pop-rushing Immortals and the supporting improvements.

The Persians seem perfect for a FiveCC game. Any thoughts?

- TT

[ToeTruck]

Here's the 3450BC save game...

If anyone is interested, here's the save game from 3450BC after popping the Settler.

- TT