Luxuries

[JohnE]

Re: Trading luxuries

Originally posted by jasonab
Has anyone else noticed that offering luxuries can hurt a trade?

I was trying to trade with the Russians, getting a tech and gems for tech and silks. When I offered only the tech, my adivor said they were unlikely to take the trade. When I added the silks, my advisor said the Russians would be insulted.

Why would adding a luxury decrease the desirability of a trade?

Yes I just noticed that last night!

Interestingly, I was trying to trade with the Russians, too. I wanted to trade Printing Press and Dyes. I asked them what they would offer for Printing Press and they offered most of their gold, plus 9 gold per turn, plus their World Map. When I threw in Dyes with the intention of getting more from them, the advisor said they would be insulted! When I asked what they would offer for Printing Press plus Dyes, they only offered 8 gold per turn. What the heck is that about?

[dweez]

Re: Re: Trading luxuries

Originally posted by JohnE
What the heck is that about?

It's a bug, obviously.
I understand that the AI doesn't like getting things per turn (afraid of losing them if you declare war), but the algorithm for calculating this has some flows. Yesterday for example: I want a technology (don't remember which), I offer 200 gold. The deal is acceptable, but if I throw in additional 5 gold/turn "they would never accept it". Silly.

[MarshalN]

It's great to have a lot of per-turn gold deals with the AI though, because they have no incentive to war you and will avoid it a lot more than they would otherwise. I am trying to win culturally this game, and so I'm tying them up with deals that keep my neighbours at peace with me. They're not a big threat militarily, but I don't want a war to disrupt my culture production.

The problem with paying lump sum is that it's difficult sometimes to gather the 600-800 gold you need to pay, especially in early-mid game where things start to cost a lot more. There are always places to spend money, and I think sometimes dealing a luxury away for something in return is a very good deal, even if it means you have to throw in 3 or 4 gold per turn. Usually if it's a tech you're getting, you can get another deal in return for more money.

[Pyrodrew]

Originally posted by MadWombat
Basically, my philosophy is this: The more gold they're paying me (even if I don't use it), the less they have to put into research, and the easier it is for me to get further ahead in tech. Since the other civs were using all their cash paying me off, they weren't getting ahead in technology. That allowed me to keep on selling them new techs, at a slower rate than I could research them (got it down to 4 turns/tech), and thus constantly increasing my tech lead.

Perfect example of how the AI gives up it's soul (usually all it's treasury, income, & future science) for simply 1 tech today... disappointing... the AI is very stupid, vulnerable & weak in this department. Worse it will do it for even Music Theory (even if the wonder is already built).

[vmxa1]

I find that unless I play on chieftian, I have no tech to trade until it is very late. I did luck out in my current game and got an early leader (japan) and hurried the Great Lib. This let me turn my research down to 10% and let them give me techs for free. When I see a tech that I can jump ahead of the tree and reseach, I may try that.

[Nero Would]

Originally posted by David Weldon
(snip)

Of course the downside to importing luxuries is that no matter how many you import, they only produce happy faces, not content faces. This means that in my example above, the third citizen would be unhappy and send the boarder town into unrest because there aren't any content citizens for the happy faces to act upon. (yes, that means you need to rush religious buildings to get content citizens so that the luxuries can then make them happy citizens)

(snip)

That is the way it works according to Civilopedia, but the manual says (page 177) that if there are no content citizens, a happy face will make an unhappy citizen content. Normally I would believe Civilopedia rather than the manual as it should be more up to date. But when I checked this in a game, it seems the manual is right, if you have no content citizens and a bunch of unhappy ones, an extra happy face will make an unhappy citizen content.

That implies that a happy face is always better than a content one (which, after all, seems reasonable).

[Matthevv]

About the AI Civ being insulted when you include a per-turn in the offer. I think this might be to do with your reputation. If you have stopped paying before the end of 20 turns previously you might find that they won't enter into per-turn deals with you. There may also be a similar thing with offering luxuries, if you stopped providing a luxury before the 20 turns. I think that if you want to get the most from trade you have to have good relations and reputation with the Civs you are trading with, then they give you a better deal. I notice that in my game the Japanese won't offer much to buy techs off me, though they are several behind the rest of the world and have the cash. We were at war until recently. I give presents to everybody else to make sure they love me, and never break a deal. I have ridiculous amounts of cash now.

[MadWombat]

Certainly, the AI could use some lessons as to which techs are worth trading for, but really, the player does need SOME strategy to get ahead on higher levels since te AI gets massive production bonuses....