a few observations on leader generation

[Cerbykins]

I've reversed the AI...does that count?
It would SEEM, (no promises), that the AI attacks when it thinks it has a shot at displacing the player. This used to be visible in the barbs...however it wouldn't take on fights where it had next to no chance at all
Anyway - the AI seems to fight when it has the 'courage' a big stack gives it to push it's luck. Unlike we humans though, it doesn't build much slack into how wrong things can go and STILL WIN, nor does it even seem to care if the odds are a little against it - just so long as it has a stab at getting you out. Hence, Mass-Impi-vs-a-dozen-knights-in-a-forest-trauma
Perhaps, once again, the AI was loking at the sheer number of troops it had vs the target and not the actual ability of each unit?

[Theseus]

Originally posted by Artifex
Umm parking troops on mountain fortresses never works, bad strategy. Whenever you have a strong unit on a mountain the enemy NEVER, EVER attacks it.

I'm not so sure about that... as a general rule, yes, but I've definitely gotten attacked when in an overwhelming stronger position (at the point / tile of battle, I mean, whether due to unit strength, unit number, and / or defensive bonuses). Sometimes very stupidly, but sometimes very cannily.

I don;t think anyone has ever really reverse-engineered AI offensive combat in a meaningful way.

[Cerbykins]

It's also a nice place to hide damaged units
If it's hidden behind a good defender, the AI won't touch it
No use for me though, I normally run to the nearest captured city. But, it's feedback on your thoughts

[Artifex]

Umm parking troops on mountain fortresses never works, bad strategy. Whenever you have a strong unit on a mountain the enemy NEVER, EVER attacks it.

Are you all playing on chieftain?

This never works I wonder why so many people suggest it..the AI will always bypass strong units like this it only attacks when it has a half decent chance. I play on Emperor so maybe its easier for you all on the easy diffs.

[mrmitchell]

IIRC, AFAIK, from reading various threads and no testing of my own (lazy me):

UPGRADING
Conscript-Regular
Militaristic 1/2, other 1/4
Regular-Veteran
Mil. 1/4, other 1/8
Vet - Elite
Mil 1/8, other 1/16

At least, that's IIRC.

Leader generation:
ALL CIVS (including Mil): 1/16
CIV WITH HEROIC EPIC: 1/12

Most of this is IIRC, and it's probably been changed with Conquests and the breakup of Sci Leaders and Mil Leaders. Anyone got info on that?

(I think I'm starting to like Conq. though. My first elite battle with the exp pack produced an MGL )

EDIT: Oh. It's two years old.

[Cerbykins]

BAH
Can't believe I missed something -THAT- obvious

Well, we'll make this thread do something useful anyway. The 'Must-Read' thread is essential viewing everyone

[steven8r]

The sad part is that this thread was started over 2 years ago. Smiley just had to 'bump' it
*steven8r shakes head from side-to-side*

For all the Leader Generating info, read the thread about Ancient Cavalry producing MGL's. (There are others too).

This thread deserves to be put back on the bottom of the stack. (and here I am posting)
*steven8r shakes head from side-to-side again*

[Cerbykins]

P.S. The specifics are in a thread listed in the 'must-read' thread. The guy is right. (^^^ at Skywalker)
I do believe double-wins guarantee-ing promotion were mentioned though...although I think it was said that you need to win twice AGAIN to guarantee promo #2.

Anyway - the link is there - go see for yourselves

[Kuciwalker]

I've been skimming this thread, and it's a buch of crap.

First, whoever said he got a leader from the ocean was lying. This does not happen. End of story.

Second, there is a FIXED PROBABILITY of generating a leader. The reason you think that it's close battles, or difficult battles, etc. is because you remember those instances of getting a leader better. This probability is larger for Militaristic civs, but IT IS FIXED. Firaxis has confirmed this. End of story.

Finally, there is a FIXED CHANCE OF PROMOTION. Militaristic civs have a larger chance, but IT IS FIXED. Again, Firaxis has confirmed this. End of story.

[Dawe]

btw, someone mentioned they noticed that units were upgraded more likely if they fight more than once per turn. This is correct, any unit that fights twice per turn and kills both enemy units it fought gets upgraded. Until the modern age (or for Germany with panzers) the only way to see this is on defense (get attacked twice). A third victory seems to always bring you another upgrade (if you started with regular or conscript).

The other thing that may or may not be true (I haven't tested any of this) is that you don't need to win twice on offense or defense to get a 'for sure' upgrade. If on your turn you win on offense and then the same unit wins again on defense, then your unit should be upgraded (this is sort of a rare natural occurance)

[Cerbykins]

In my current game, the cavs are generating plenty of leaders...
Probably because they're beating up on a killer-civ who had a few too many old kinghts and Immortals

[:) Smiley]

You can get leaders from defending cities. Great for putting them to immediate use.

Fighting a "defensive" war is probably the most cost effective way to generate leaders. Park troops on mountain fortresses 2 squares away from enemy city in enemy territory. Be sure to have lots of bombaring units. Enemy attacks and gets weakened before hitting your troops.

[Aeson]

Has anyone noticed an increase in leader generation in blitz scenarios (or multi-defense in the same turn)? The other night I played one of the few games where I waited until the modern age for the final military assault. I had been at constant war the whole game, in purposely prolonged combat. Often I was fighting on as many as 4 fronts, but up until my Modern Armor, I had only generated 2 leaders. (thats in italics because I usually don't get any) Once my Modern Armor started cleaning up, and I became accustomed to their blitz ability, I started generating leaders left and right. 4 of them in just 3 turns, and another one a few turns later. In all cases I used the first leader before another was created. Also, the leaders always were generated on the second successful attack in the turn. I'm sure everyone has noticed the mandatory multiple defense/turn upgrades. Perhaps it is the same for multiple attacks/turn as well? I would guess that I had close to 200 victories with my Modern Armor elites, and at least double that with various other elite forces before that. It's certainly possible that this was just an abnormal occurance, but having over 4 times the leader generation per blitz victory seems a bit much.

As far as the "exploit" defensive invasion, I don't see it as very bad when compared to the ROP invasion. It is quite easy to completely take out a Civ in only a few turns once they are railroaded and give a ROP. It is a bit more difficult to conquer the same Civ by first landing a force, having to defend against the AI offensive, and then counter-attacking. There might be the leader generation factor, but leaders seem less significant in the later eras, other than perhaps 1 or 2 needed for the UN and a palace relocation.

[Arrian]

Hmm, I'll have to try it sometime just to see it. I suppose it isn't an exploit. At least any more than using the UN in Civ II to force peace every time you took a city (or group cities) so that you could consolidate (get those howitzers back inside a city!) and then provoke the AI to war again in the next turn

Having a big, tough enemy can do wonders for your chances of getting leaders. A large opponent is more dangerous, of course, but what it really means is that it will take you longer to destroy his army in the field. More battles. More elite units. More leaders. I got 3 last night as the Babylonians, and the game is still in the mid-industrial era.

-Arrian

[pchang]

Originally posted by Arrian
pchang,

I've seen other posts (by you, perhaps?) detailing how the AI will throw human waves of troops at mech infantry on a RR'd mountain. True, huh? If so... does doing what you suggest qualify as somewhat of an exploit?

Somebody else noticed that first. Exploit? Possibly, however, that is the computer response to any invasion when it has railroads, so this "exploit" is part of the natural course of events for anyone who fights a war with the AI when the AI has railroads. I mostly see this with infantry vs. waves of cavalry.