2nd Apolyton Civ3 Tournament : 1-15/December/2001 (results are in!)

[adaMada]

Markos: Save/Reload in or out?

NOTE: I do not want an arguement on the save reload thing. Personally, I don't plan to use it in my games, but I'd like to know if it's legal anyway. So, markos, what do you think? Also please note that this should be the final word on it, if someone wants to argue over it please start a thread, since I'd like to be able to see who's submitted what without going through hundreds of posts about save/reload and if it's a cheat.

-- adaMada

[MarkG]

Originally posted by adaMada
Markos: Save/Reload in or out?

save/reload, as well as restarting is obviously discouraged(i wont say "prohibited" since i cant enforce it, it would be ridicullous)

[bigfree1]

Originally posted by MarkG
save/reload, as well as restarting is obviously discouraged(i wont say "prohibited" since i cant enforce it, it would be ridicullous)

People are just soooo honest, I'll bet no one will save/reload their games.

There has to be a programable way to prevent this in order to have legitimate tounaments, otherwise it's anything goes (as long as you're not caught!)

[Bloodaxe]

Just got back from work and thought I'd see what everyone has posted, but not much here - guess everyone is too busy playing.

What HAS happened to to the Americans Markos?
Aeson - Will look into the Indian thing.

Update on my game (as if anyone gives a s***)
Its about 1000AD and I've settled the island to the southwest fully and the one to the north I share with the Russians. Managed to wipe out the Iroquois (no mercy, no vassal states) and have taken over their island as well. I'm on a par with the tech leader (France) and will soon outpace them as I've just changed to democracy and am getting advances in 4 turns. Think I'll go all out for tanks/marines/transports/battleships and then KILL, KILL, KILL, esp. Russians.

[MarkG]

Originally posted by Bloodaxe
What HAS happened to to the Americans Markos?

not sure, but i might have "destroyed" one of the starting locations while removing the huts

[Peets]

Originally posted by MarkG
not sure, but i might have "destroyed" one of the starting locations while removing the huts

hehe
I first thought they were killed very fast. I won't be last in score now, hehe. Although I won the previous game (tournament) with space victory, I was surprised I managed that.
Let's hope I can find a good strategy to win again like previous time.

[David Floyd]

I'd love to play this one, as it is on settings that I like with a Civ I enjoy playing...but I have finals this and next week so I must set priorities

I'll definitely do one for January, though!

[MartyParty1]

8035 points with Conquest victory in 230 AD.
Used save/load and some strategies discussed on this board plus some Strategy(s) of my own that you guys don't seem to have found yet.

If I would've played it ironman style it would probably have taken an extra 15-20 turns.

[cgrecu]

I don't want to accuse anybody of anything, but Conquest victory in 200 AD?
Common, you don't even have time to visit all continents so quickly.
And, since it's on monarch and you don't have horses, I have doubts that you can conquer any civilization in such short time.
Anyway, I can't wait to see the saved game...
Once again, this is not an accusation, I am just amazed...

[player1]

Originally posted by cgrecu
I don't want to accuse anybody of anything, but Conquest victory in 200 AD?
Common, you don't even have time to visit all continents so quickly.
And, since it's on monarch and you don't have horses, I have doubts that you can conquer any civilization in such short time.
Anyway, I can't wait to see the saved game...
Once again, this is not an accusation, I am just amazed...

Such type of game are usually extensive cheating wich load/save.

In last tornament one guy got 10000 points conquest vitory.
If you look that repaly you'll see that he get second city in 3800.
(probably becuse he got settler in nearby hut, by extensive load/saves)

Also one warror attack beats spearmen by such kind of cheating.
2 warriors beat 2 cities.
5 beat 5 cities...

I know this because I tried it in regualar game.
It works.

But, it breaks tournaments.

Anyway, random seed is changing if you now how to trigger it.

Hint: Diplomay session CHAGES random seed.

P.S.
This doesn't mean that this guy had cheated.
Practicly, it's not even a cheat because it can't be monitored.
But, I am suspicious.

[philler]

if some people want to cheat, so be it, there's not much we can do about it anyway.

the interesting thing is to be able to discuss a given map and compare our respective strategies, *not* to have the best score...

personally, I restarted the game last night. I realized that I would be much better off by changing my usual science research scheme and going directly for map making...

if this is cheating by your rules, then fine by me, do no include me in the contest

I just didn't feel like carrying on with the other game, where I was pretty much stuck on my island except for a couple of cities. I was always 2 or 3 techs behind the others, and the game wasn't fun at all.

So, I don't know if I'm going to end up with the best score, and I probably won't, but what I know for sure is that I'm having fun taking part in this tournament.

I hope you all remember that. It's about having fun, not proving to the whole world how good you are at moving units around...

and if you cheat to achieve high scores, and are actually proud of you, well, go see a shrink.

you need it.

--
edited: corrected a few typos.

[player1]

In fact that kind of cheating is not fun at all.
All those load/saves to make one move perfect.

It's just not fun.

I know from expoirience.

In fact games wich some kind of disasters are much more enjoable & challenging.

Like my first Civ3 game (regent), when barbarian horsemens killed 2 mine settlers when I had only 5 cities.
I was a fun game indeed.

[cgrecu]

Originally posted by player1

Also one warror attack beats spearmen by such kind of cheating.
2 warriors beat 2 cities.
5 beat 5 cities...

I'm not so sure about this, because the chances to beat with one warrior a spearman are (on monarch level) about 1 in 20 I think.
And this means that you must wait a few turns, because save/load does not alter the dice as you know.
Also, the computer defends usually with two spearmans, this makes the chances even smaller.
You have a little more chance with the archers, but not by much.
And think about the number of galleys you need...
And , as far as I played(not much, it's true) the only way to reach the other 4 civs (unless the Lighthouse is yours...) is to travel east , along the coast of Iroq., where there are a lot of pirates...

Originally posted by player1
Hint: Diplomay session CHAGES random seed.
But, I am suspicious.

If this is true, then this is a cheat, just like the 1.000.000 gold bug.(unless it wasn't intended this way by the developers, which I don't think so).

I stick to my opinion, that only by save/load it is not possible to obtain this time.
One thing I have to say is that Civ3 is looking more and more like a Civ1 game, the best way to win is to build as much cities as possible(in as little space as possible) and rush as much Horseman as possible...
I don't like this at all.

[volcanohead]

Reloading/hard map

Save/reloading does work to change combat results as the random seed is updated each turn. It's easy, and it's very effective in the early game when there are few defending units.

But it's a sad and boring way of playing.

I'm still playing this map, and it's much better than the previous one, simply because I'm having to change my strategy completely. I went quickly for mapmaking to colonise the nearby islands, but I was still too slow to achieve dominance on the sourthern island... The iroquis got there first. I tried to attack, but failed, and at that point could have reloaded again and again to beat them off... but I figured, hell, why am I playing this thing? Just for the score or to see what I can do with default rules? So I gave up on the attack and aimed to get a city on as many luxury spots as I could, which went pretty well.

One point: the Germans, damn them, have the most beneficial starting spot I've ever seen. When I saw that I got really pissed off, and piad a ton of money to everyone else to declare war on them, which has really slowed down their progress, so now they are lagging behind. Very nice...

Anyway, good luck as usual, and FIGHT THE TEMPTATION TO RELOAD!

V

[cgrecu]

Re: Reloading/hard map

Originally posted by volcanohead
Save/reloading does work to change combat results as the random seed is updated each turn. It's easy, and it's very effective in the early game when there are few defending units.

Yes, but if you are i clear disadvantage(warrrior vs Monarch spearman) then it will take you several turns to beat the spearman.And several turns(maybe even 5-10 turns).
And it does not matter how many warriors you have because if you don' win with the first then the spearman might go elite and then you'll have some big problems.
I think it is very time consuming to beat the world only with warriors, so even on a pangeea it isn't possible to win too quickly.
And I agree with volcano, the best victory is when you start in the worst possible location and inspite of the bad luck and all you manage to squeeze out a victory...without cheating of course...