Apolyton Tournaments: General discussion, regulations and suggestions

[MarkG]

please post about the subjects in the title here

[Capt Dizle]

I suggest that:

1. All reloading, which would include restarting, is prohibited. If a save is corrupted or for any other reason it is not possible to continue a game then the player must withdraw from the month's competition.

2. Use of the money bug is disallowed. Use of mods are disallowed. Any method or circumstance that a player might intentionally or unintentionally use, which in the player's judgement could give them an unfair advantage, is disallowed and the player must withdraw.

3. Players should refrain from reading any threads about the current game, however, should a player accidentally read something about the game, they should judge for themselves if that knowledge could give them an unfair advantage and if so withdraw.



The rules would be enforced only by the participants sense of honor and decency.

[Ahlyis]

If those are the rules, then I will abide by them. I definitely think that there should be a category specifically for submissions that meet those criteria.

But I would prefer that submissions not be limited to those in order to be eligible. For me, and many others I think, a lot of fun is derived from playing again to see how much better I can do. I also like seeing what others can do if allowed to play multiple times.

By playing more than once, you do gain an unfair advantage over the first time player, but I disagree over whether that should be considered cheating. I just think that there should be a separate category for the two types of submissions.

Determine the victory conditions, then have two winners. The best submitted game from a first playing with no reloads or restarts wins one category. And the best submitted game, with reloads/restarts allowed but no mods or other exploits, wins the other category.

I don't think we need to have a winner for every victory type. Just pick which victory types will be permissible for the contest. Whether that's just one or several doesn't matter. But if there are multiple permissible victory conditions, don't award multiple winners for each one.

Also, I don't care whether we use score or year of victory as the criteria, but it needs to be clear from the outset what will determine the 'best' game.

[dainbramaged13]

I think we should have one victory type only allowed for the win or something to that affect, so we dont have half of the people involved getting awards, or we should have a self-imposed rule like OCC or a no-war game
Yes, i believe that there should be a category with certain rules that you MUST abide by like jimmytricks, and then another category like Alhyis' where almost anything (except mods of course) goes.

[Capt Dizle]

I agree. Two categories. Just set up separate threads. Limited and OpenTourneys.

For the Open group, I would suggest one rule. Folks should be willing to state what they used, mod or reload or whatever. I would actually be interested in that.

Limited would be for those with a desire to play a straight up game.

Neat thing is that you could enter the Open after completing the Limited game and making your submission.

That would be neat and would solve all the issues.

[smellymummy]

thats not a good idea, having one tourney for people who play the map the second time around.... I mean come on its a tournament, you should not be able to play with any forewarning of what's going to happen at all.

And having a tourney for people who will play by saving and reloading !?!@

You should load the map, and play turn by turn. If you loose a city, if you loose your army on the offense, if you get barbarians in the hut, or whatever ! suck it up and play.

If you're defeated, or if you can't win the first time around then you're out and that's it. You'll just have to practice some more until the next tournament.

That's how I'll play and I have no qualms about loosing.. but sure I'll prefer to win

[Tilemacho]

I agree with two categories. First you can play without reloading and then if you like play again with reloading.
But I think that the winning categories should be reduced!!! I propose conquest and space to be the main ones and culture and domination to be EXCLUDED !!! I mean they don’t really add a new strategy do they? They only reduce the score builders can get! Maybe diplomatic and history victories could stay as secondary options….

[Master Marcus]

Hmmm, no, I was just thinking about allowing a culture victory only for the tourney score, on average map+8 civs+archipelago, but with ALL other victories allowed at Monarch+ and let's see how many can have it before the AI gets the Spaceship.

[smellymummy]

ok so now that the 2nd tourney has made it to the anouncement, is there going to be any rules, such as no save reloads, exploiting, etc?

Or is it going to be a free for all again until the community in general reaches an agreement? Mods, care to comment?

[Ziggyny]

Originally posted by smellymummy
thats not a good idea, having one tourney for people who play the map the second time around.... I mean come on its a tournament, you should not be able to play with any forewarning of what's going to happen at all.

Maybe it's that I'm new to the online Civ community, but why is that such an absurd option?

More to the point, what is it about a tournament that makes it a first-run through thing? When I heard that there was a tournament, I honestly thought that meant I should try to master the map. If that meant several tries, so be it.

Was I totally missing something?


Of more relevance, I very much agree with having a category for first time through, and a category for mastering the map. I think there should be two winners in each group, one for date and one for score.

Of course, the honour system is the be-all and end-all of this option.

Modifying the game so that tundra gives a lot of food, for example, should be disallowed. I think that makes it a completely different game.


I don't know what the rules are for the next tournament, but I am going to play it through once, 'cleanly'. Then I'm going to try to master the map. I'll post scores for both, and you can take each of them into consideration however you so desire.

[bigfree1]

Originally posted by jimmytrick

The rules would be enforced only by the participants sense of honor and decency.

You ARE talking about human beings aren't you?

I'd rather bet on the Clipper's to win the Championship.

[Zaphod]

Just a few suggestions:

I think having two tournaments for the same map, Open and Limited, makes a lot of sense. There are benefits to both, and both can be fun. They are really different games, though, so making a judgement on best games in a tournament where some are playing once through and some are reloading is not fair; one is not measuring the same thing.

I would also like to argue that for both of the tournaments there should be separate categories for victory. Conquest and builder games are fundamentally different and should not be compared against each other. So, perhaps we should have a conquest winner, a cultural victory winner, a space race winner, etc. for each tournament - Open and Limited. Or maybe just a conquest winner and a space race winner to make things simpler.

On the question of honor, there is no problem for the Open tournament - anything goes. For the limited tournament, practically speaking I don't see anyway to enforce the rules strictly, but having the Open tournament as an option should provide an outlet for those who have a style of play (with reloads, mods, etc.) that the "iron" men and women would consider cheating.

[riven]

My suggestions:

1. Keep everyone happy.

Thus:

a. Have an unrestricted section. (for the faint hearted).
b. Have a restricted section.
c. Have a winner for each victory type.
d. Have a winner in terms of score and year.

This does mean a lot of winners, but that doesn't have to be a bad thing, refer to suggestion 1.

[MarkG]

yuo know guys, i dont know if this has come accross, but i could use some help with the validation of the saved games.....

[philler]

edited because I hadn't seen that the new tournament was available!

how long has it been there?