Lumberjacking - oh my

[barefootbadass]

Why would some of you guys not want to play with a lumberjacker? You could get 50+ free workers at once! Of course with all that production, you can bet it will be hard to take those 'jacks, but oh the rewards.

Lumberjacking will not be moot after corruption is fixed, you will just have more money to support more workers to do it.

It is not a cheat and was built in the game as an intentional option for rushing things(except wonders which would be too powerful since firaxis wanted wonders to be hard to build). The manual mentions chopping down forests as a method for rushing stuff or helping to rush stuff. Just because planting a forest to chop it down again wasn't explicitly mentioned doesn't make it a cheat, doing so is really the only way that rushing by chopping down forests can be an option for very long.

Auto-pathing in civ3 is now perfect in the sense that it will pick the shortest path(or one of the shortest paths) every time, but you still have to be careful, sometimes the longer, safer way is better.

[Monoriu]

"Why would some of you guys not want to play with a lumberjacker? You could get 50+ free workers at once! Of course with all that production, you can bet it will be hard to take those 'jacks, but oh the rewards. "

Good question. I thought about it for a while and here is my answer:

1. Because I am lazy. (serious)
2. Because I have a fixed mindset on how I want to play the game and I don't want to insert something that is quite wierd into my cherished method (again, serious, not sacarsm).
3. Because I have a feeling that it maybe changed in the next patch.
4. Because I can stand on moral high ground on the forums and call it a cheat.

So, after thinking about it, none of the above reasons actually make any sense.


"Lumberjacking will not be moot after corruption is fixed, you will just have more money to support more workers to do it.

It is not a cheat and was built in the game as an intentional option for rushing things(except wonders which would be too powerful since firaxis wanted wonders to be hard to build). The manual mentions chopping down forests as a method for rushing stuff or helping to rush stuff. Just because planting a forest to chop it down again wasn't explicitly mentioned doesn't make it a cheat, doing so is really the only way that rushing by chopping down forests can be an option for very long. "


Thank you. I think I can justify to my consciene of using lumberjacking now. Cool, I'll have to try it out tonight.





"Auto-pathing in civ3 is now perfect in the sense that it will pick the shortest path(or one of the shortest paths) every time, but you still have to be careful, sometimes the longer, safer way is better."

K, I'll try it. Thanks.


Monoriu, recent convert to the lumberjacking technique

[kittenOFchaos]

If I had the time -busy me- I would play civ3 and build a huge empire...as it is I'm enjoying just playing and learning the game and seeing how well I do with a managable 10 cities or so...

I agree with Vel that players ARE going to do it all themselves for they hate mistakes being made that could be avoided...in mp of civ2 i certainly checked most of my cities each turn unless I was confident that I was well in charge As for the lumberjacking...I have no need as my empires are small and managable -well playing England on a huge mod world map with 16 civs in historic position you can play purrfectionist with ease.

[Out4Blood]

How does lumberjacking compare to Rush building everything in Despotism? I find workers too hard to rush (you lose TWO pop) and since I am using food and not shields...

[vmxa1]

I messed around with rushing/sacrifice and lumberjacking, but it is not my cup of tea. In a large or huge map it is too much trouble. I will set a worker or tow to jacking if I have nothing better for them to do, especially if I am holding them to clean up pollution. I like to micromanage, but with scores of workers it is too much. I manage everything else.

[Venger]

Re: Re: Lumberjacking - oh my

Originally posted by Monoriu
1. I do not use lumberjacking. Yes I personally consider it a cheat and I hope they'll do something about it in the next patch.

Not sure what they could do. I think the reason people are using it is to help build in cities that have lost all but one shield to corruption. If they fix that, I think they fix this...

2. However, I DO move 80 workers (sometimes more) around manually to do things and yes the game is still very fun for me.

Right there with you. I just think lumberjacking with them is tedious. Building infrastructure is NOT tedious...

I bet I have alot more than 80 workers in my current game (still on my first, can you believe it). Is there a way to tell how many units you have in the field? You could in Civ2, but that unfortunately doesn't mean anything anymore.

3. I never automate anything in civ games.

Why let the AI do what I can do better?

4. Why does it bother you so much? MP is not out, until then, if you don't like it, don't use it. However I do agree that they need to do something (maybe option to turn off?) when MP comes out.

Because it's number #491 in a list of things that tell me this product was rushed out the door without decent testing, and that gameplay lessons learned from Civ2 and SMAC apparently fell on deaf ears or small minds...that someone has to go to the trouble to exploit this just to deal with the broken corruption is the problem.

Venger

[Desert Journeyman]

What is 'lumberjacking'? I have around 30+ workers terraforming all over my continent, because I began on jungle. Yet I have the feeling that conversation is not about this type of 'forest clearing', or is it?

What does this have to do with rushing production?

I like the idea of the worker, especially that it can be captured or used to build "colonies". Very excellent concept, if somewhat unwieldy during war-time.

[Monoriu]

Re: Re: Re: Lumberjacking - oh my

Originally posted by Venger


"I bet I have alot more than 80 workers in my current game (still on my first, can you believe it). Is there a way to tell how many units you have in the field? You could in Civ2, but that unfortunately doesn't mean anything anymore. "

Yes, press F3 for the military advisor, on the left side of the screen choose sort by unit (default is sort by city) and it will tell you how many units of each type you have.



Venger

[solo]

The solution to lumberjacking abuses would be to use the editor to increase the number of turns needed to replant a forest. Make it take 50 times as long as it takes to clear a forest to reflect the fact that trees can be cut down quickly, but that seedlings take many years to grow back into mature trees.

[vmxa1]

Lumberjacking is cutting tree with worker(s) and then planting them to start all other again. This puts 10 shields in the coffer and can speed up production or rush it.

[Monster]

Sorry, I can't resist...

Lumberjack Song (by Monty Phyton)

BARBER:
I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay.
I sleep all night and I work all day.
MOUNTIES:
He's a lumberjack, and he's okay.
He sleeps all night and he works all day.
BARBER:
I cut down trees. I eat my lunch.
I go to the lavatory.
On Wednesdays I go shoppin'
And have buttered scones for tea.
MOUNTIES:
He cuts down trees. He eats his lunch.
He goes to the lavatory.
On Wednesdays he goes shoppin'
And has buttered scones for tea.
He's a lumberjack, and he's okay.
He sleeps all night and he works all day.
BARBER:
I cut down trees. I skip and jump.
I like to press wild flowers.
I put on women's clothing
And hang around in bars.
MOUNTIES:
He cuts down trees. He skips and jumps.
He likes to press wild flowers.
He puts on women's clothing
And hangs around in bars?!
He's a lumberjack, and he's okay.
He sleeps all night and he works all day.
BARBER:
I cut down trees. I wear high heels,
Suspendies, and a bra.
I wish I'd been a girlie,
Just like my dear Papa.
MOUNTIES:
He cuts down trees. He wears high heels,
Suspendies, and a bra?!
[talking]
What's this? Wants to be a girlie?! Oh, My!
And I thought you were so rugged! Poofter!
[singing]
He's a lumberjack, and he's okay.
He sleeps all night and he works all day.
He's a lumberjack, and he's okaaaaay.
He sleeps all night and he works all day.

[Kaesar]

Journeyman:

Lumberjacking is a way to rushbuild things. I personnally use it during mid or late games when I have tons of workers with nothing to do. Here it goes:

After you have researched engineering, your workers can plant forests. It takes 4 turns. Clearing forests takes 4 turns and yields 10 shields. But, it seems the game calculates that turn at the moment you assign the order, so you can actually plant a forest instantaneously by sending 4 workers to plant on the same square, and then sending 4 workers to cut down the forest. If you have extra workers, it's a great way to make more shields, and if you are an industrious civ, then the work is done in half the time.

My Rational for Lumberjacking:

So with 40 industrious workers, you can create 100 extra shields, and that's why it seems like cheating. BUT...... it's been said before, Firaxis already has thought about this and that's why you can't do this with wonders, palace, and space ships. You can only lumberjack rush with improvements and units. Plus, you can't switch to wonders, palace and space ships after you have lumberjacked even once(I've tried it, it doesn't work. You can only switch if you haven't rushed in any sort of way). So in my own conscience it is not cheating. It is a thought out game feature.

[Desert Journeyman]

Does it work with jungle squares? This could be just the "jump" ahead I need to outdo the overwhealming 7 civilizations coming at me ...

[Roytheboy]

What is the point of the replant function if the game designers didnt want lumberjacking ?
Can you just turn off replanting in the editor if you don't like lumberjacking ?

[Boney]

Kaesar, actually 40 workers, by your premise of 4 turns to grow and 4 turns to cut would produce 50 shields, not one hundred. Growing does not gain any shields.