Picking the right Civ!

[Arrian]

Japan, China. China, Japan. Eenee, meenee, miney, mo. Catch a Rider by the toe. If he hollers, chop him in half with a Samurai.

-Arrian

[Harovan]

After commercial has been improved, India and France have become an excellent choice for the "builder with short decisive wars" type of players. Commercial is a cash machine now, and combined with either religious or industrious (the best traits hands down) it results in wealthy and advanced empires. Ah yes, both have UUs, albeit crappy by stats, but perfectly timed. In case of India, it's at least the best looking one.

[aaglo]

I have just recently started playing civ3.

And I found an interesting combo of traits. Religious&Scientific. You get cheap temples, cathedrals, libraries, universities and research labs(?).

Cultural victory, here I come!

[punkbass2000]

I gotta say, I like the Babs. I wouldn't say they're my favourite builder civ, but you really miss having cheap temples AND libraries every time you play another civ. Hell, if I went straight from the Babs to some one like the English or Romans (or anyone without rel or sci), I imagine I would suffer something not unlike the withdrawal of a heroin addict . 'You want thirty turns to build a temple?!?! You're fired!' *selects 'Abandon city'*. And, oddly enough, the UU's greatest asset is its uselessness. You don't feel the least bit bad about not using the Bowmen and keeping them for a well-timed GA.

[Arrian]

I've always liked the Babs too. The withdrawl you mentioned, though, is similar to industrious worker withdrawl: "you want four turns to irrigate that square? That's it, I'm selling you to the Aztecs for sacrifice!"

-Arrian

[mrmitchell]

Attributes:

1. Industrious-This is THE attribute. Hopefully in civ4, Firaxis will make the attributes more even, as this one annihlates any other attribute.
2. Commercial-Exactly what Sava said, less corruption/extra commerce.
3. Scientific-Man, it's just me-I like science! Besides, it does give that enticing free advance per age.
4. Militaristic-About a third of the people reading will scratch their head why militaristic is fourth. I just usally don't go for an annihlation game.
5. Religious-I don't change gov't that often.
6. Expansionist-This attrib sucks. I'm not kidding. By the time I've got up to map making, I've already got enough loot from needing less science(scientific), having more commerce(commercial), and supporting less workers(industrious) to just buy the maps from the poor sap Expansionist civs. What losers.

I'm sorry if that affected you personally about the Expansionistic, it's just it really is a bad attribute (at least for how I play) and I'm not alone.

As far as civ goes, I usually play Persia and this game I'm playing Germany...I'm going through ultra-heck for it, too-no industrious! Argh! (I'll bet they kick @$$ when you get to Panzers, though.)

[nbarclay]

China and Japan can get exceptionally good use out of the militaristic trait due to the timing and attacking power of their UUs. Build a few riders or samurai, start a war, use the GA to build a whole bunch more of them, get great leaders, and use the leaders to rush a few medieval wonders. Rome might be able to get a similar advantage with ancient warfare and wonders using legionaries, but I've never tried that (although now that I think of it...). The thing is, you've got to be willing to go through a major warmongering phase to get full advantage out of the militaristic trait.

Now that I know Persia is really scientific and industrious, I need to try them more (if I ever have time between AU games and CivFanatics GOTMs). I love the industrious trait for its reduced worker micromanagement even aside from the gameplay benefits of faster workers. Cheap libraries and universities fit wonderfully into my "outresearch the AI and then blow it away with technologically superior forces" strategies. And the free techs can more or less make up for the research time (but not the production time) lost to longer periods of anarchy - at least for someone who doesn't like switching governments all the time. Also, the UU can be used either for heavy ancient warfare if you start so cramped for space that it's worth triggering a GA early to grab land from an AI or for timing a GA right after switching to Republic or Monarchy in order to speed up library, marketplace, aqueduct, etc. production. (Of course slow-moving UUs are at their best on a standard or smaller map.)

Nathan

[Dis]

I do know America sucks .

At least for early wars. I got a hurtin' put on me today in an Ancient age war.

Expansionist just isn't for me. I did get 1 tech from a hut, but all the others were crap.

[vmxa1]

I have never been fond it expansion either and since I try to avoid huge maps or even large maps, it does not cost me much. Besides the only times I ever got settlers out of a hut was without that trait.

[Chemical Ollie]

I tried the Aztect for a change and found out I did not like them. Even if you can pump out jags every 2nd or 3rd turn in your core cities and 1 per turn during GA, you need at least ten of them to take out a fortified spearman. Building immortals, legions, or mounted warriors every 5-10th turn seems cheaper in the long run, as they have much higher chance of survival. And war chariots are almost as cheap as jags, especially for an industrious civ.

[Arrian]

I love how people still have wildly divergent rankings of the civ traits:

1. Industrious-This is THE attribute. Hopefully in civ4, Firaxis will make the attributes more even, as this one annihlates any other attribute.
2. Commercial-Exactly what Sava said, less corruption/extra commerce.
3. Scientific-Man, it's just me-I like science! Besides, it does give that enticing free advance per age.
4. Militaristic-About a third of the people reading will scratch their head why militaristic is fourth. I just usally don't go for an annihlation game.
5. Religious-I don't change gov't that often.
6. Expansionist-This attrib sucks. I'm not kidding.

It's all about how you play the game. My ranking is quite different:

1. Religious
2. Industrious
3. Militaristic
4. Scientific
5. Commerical
6. Expansiontist

I play on standard maps, Monarch & Emperor levels, and I do warmonger. Accordingly, my rankings are geared toward that sort of game.

Nathan,

Try out Rome. I played them on Monarch right after 1.29 came out and had a lot of fun. I'm still not a big Legionary fan (I'd trade it for the immortal in a heartbeat), but they do have their uses. Plus, it just cool being Roman.

-Arrian

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by Arrian
It's all about how you play the game. My ranking is quite different:

1. Religious
2. Industrious
3. Militaristic
4. Scientific
5. Commerical
6. Expansiontist

I play on standard maps, Monarch & Emperor levels, and I do warmonger. Accordingly, my rankings are geared toward that sort of game.

I agree it is what works for how you like to play. I have not used 3-6 that often, so I am not appreciative of their uses.

1.Ind
2-3 Rel & Mil
4-5 Comm & Sci
6. Expan

I like std maps on Monarch or higer. I have had enough of the huge for a while.

[Theseus]

Following this week's musical theme:

"It's in the way that you use it..."

I'm in general agreement about Rel, Ind, and Mil.

BUT, I maintain that each can be used to great effect, even Exp.

Comm - Big empire anyone?
Sci - Nationalism Slingshot. Also, cheap Libraries are great for fast culture.
Exp - Not that I'm very good with it, but remember Aeson and Vel with Aztecs or Zulus?

[nbarclay]

Scientific is at its best if you're in a situation where you can try to out-tech the AIs starting in the ancient era. If you're not trying to do serious research yourself, libraries are useful only for their culture. But if you're trying to get out in front in tech, being able to build libraries in half the time after discovering Literature can be a major advantage. Similarly, half-price universities can be a huge advantage trying to build a tech lead in the medieval era.

Of course the great irony of the Scientific trait is that it's at its most powerful in games you could win easily anyhow. If you're in a strong research position, Scientific makes it stronger. But if you're in a weak position, chances are that the Scientific trait won't tip the balance into making it viable to do a lot of your own research. That may have a lot to do with why Scientific isn't rated more highly than it is. It's a powerful trait on average, but other traits do a better job of giving a boost where it's needed most.

Nathan

[vmxa1]

Yes getting cheap structures for research and free techs is inviting, but you can do without it. I would much rather have industrious.