Things I always do, advice requested...

[Archmage]

I love Civilization III. However, sucking at it and being fairly inflexibly unexperimental in my approach has me slightly frustrated.

I don't have Conquests yet but am purchasing it sometime before Christmas...

I tend to be fairly warlike. I think crushing lesser opponents on my border is a right, not a privelege. I see tiles and tiles of prime real estate and I can't resist. Unused resources that I need only spur my bloodlust to further heights.

As a result of this general approach, I tend to use monarchy and communism. I realize this costs me money but I could care less. I always set my science rate as high as possible so my coffers are often empty or nearly empty.

I don't upgrade units. Ever. Instead, obsolete units are used to speed up the development of newly conquered cities by rushing things like temples and libraries with disband.

I like to build cities with three tiles between them. Any closer and I feel they choke one another. Any further and you're wasting land. I like to mine the eight tiles surrounding the city and irrigate the twelve tiles further out. I build roads in every tile in a city's radius but only build railroads in lines connecting cities. I always build coastal cities whenever possible.

I like to randomly choose my civ and fill the largest map with fifteen other civs. I prefer the Persians but I'll take whoever. I think it's fun to try and modify my strategy a little to match the civ I'm playing as.

I build as many wonders as possible, although the Great Library is an extreme priority.

I like to use one leader a game to build an army so I can build the wonder that allows you to build more armies. Other than that, I use them all to rush Wonders.

Early on, I beeline for literature and construction. Monarchy is a secondary consideration. I beeline military tradition to get to cavalry and skip knights and chivalry altogether. I wait as long as possible to get education to prolong the effects of Great Library. I beeline replaceable parts so I can skip riflemen and go straight to infantry. I snatch up Theory of Evolution and I love to build hospitals so sanitation and scientific method are other prioroties.

I mostly play on Warlord with Acclerated Production turned on. I know that will elicit stifled chuckles from many readers but I get my ass handed to me later on.

What am I doing wrong? I played Civ II a hundred times as well and also dominated the bottom two difficulties and got massacred on higher ones...

Also, is the general consensus that Conquests is worth getting? I am leaning strongly towards getting it. I do have PTW already...

[Arrian]

I don't upgrade units. Ever. Instead, obsolete units are used to speed up the development of newly conquered cities by rushing things like temples and libraries with disband.

Mistake. Big mistake. As someone who does a lot of fighting (especially in PTW... Conquests has cut down on my warmongering a bit), I cannot overstate the importance of unit upgrades. It's so powerful, in fact, that the programmers increased the cost in Conquests (3gold per shield, up from 2g per shield). Generally speaking, it's easier to come up with gold than it is to come up with shields. Especially for players like me, who use republic more than monarchy, and who do not always run maximum research. 10 shields (warrior) + 40 gold = 1 swordsman. I'll do that over building the darn thing for 30 shields. Saves a lot of time. And that's worth the money to me.

Your city planning sounds fine (3 tiles between is what I do too, and it works pretty darn well on Monarch, so it should be just fine on Warlord). Your tech path... well, getting out of Despotism is a big priority for me.

If I had to guess, I'd say the most common thing that people do wrong in Civ is misuse/underuse of workers. Terrain development is absolutely crucial. The other thing that tends to happen is that people underestimate the importance of growth. Growth is also crucial. Pop is power. The more you have, the more tiles you work, the more production & commerce you bring in. Early granaries can be very powerful - especially if you can learn to manage a 4-turn settler pump (requires +5 food, and an average of +7.5 shields/turn as the city grows from size 5-7).

Anyway, I would suggest reading the threads listed in the topped thread in this very forum: "Must read threads." Loads of good advice in there. Be aware some of it is a little dated, but most of it is still applicable.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Oh, one other thing I missed:

I build roads in every tile in a city's radius but only build railroads in lines connecting cities.

I assume this is a stylistic choice. If so, fine, but you have to know that it's hurting you. You're not getting the most out of your terrain.

-Arrian

[vmxa1]

Last first, yes C3C is worth getting. Forget about CivII, it does not relate well to CivIII.

Workers and tiles are the keys to CivIII. Make lots of workers and keep them busy improving tiles that citizens are working. Do RR all tiles, just prioritize connecting cities and then worked tiles. In the end all tiles must be have RR. You will need to get to the pollution quickly, you may need to get to a tile to defend from long distance.
At warlord, the GL should be nearly useless for other than culture and braggin rights. I say this because you should be first to nearly all tech by the last tier in the ancient age. This means the GL will yield no tech. If it is netting you tech, you need to look at how you are managing your empire (assuming a decent start).

Upgrades are the way to go in Civ/PTW, they are less attractive in C3C. You still have to do them, because otherwise you will have to build your army over and over.

[vmxa1]

I should say that to me the higher the level the more the Great Lib is worth to you. It is at Demi that it starts to be a real factor, you just cannot keep up with tech in the first two ages at that level. As you step down in levels it gets easier to hold your own until you go to Monarch. Below that it normally not an issue, I put Monarch as the point that the GL has some value, depending on your start and civ.
So far it seems to me that C3C makes it a bit easier to keep up if the civs are not one one large landmass. This is because they do not make contact as quickly and do not get the boost in research from contacts and trades.

[Tall Stranger]

As usual, Arrian's posts hit most of the key points. The only things I would emphasize are:

1. Don't be afraid to be a warmongering republic. Provided you set reasonable goals and develop a good, quick-strike war plan, you can handle the war weariness very easily. My guess is that, at the Warlord level, one or two luxuries will be more than enough to control weariness. The econ benefits of rep over monarchy are huge.

2. The GL is pretty pointless at the Warlord level. At that level, you should easily be able to outresearch the AI (especially if you improve your territory as Arrian suggests). Pyramids are a much better investment.

And yes, despite the bugs, C3C is definitely worth the investment.

[Archmage]

Originally posted by Arrian
Generally speaking, it's easier to come up with gold than it is to come up with shields. Especially for players like me, who use republic more than monarchy, and who do not always run maximum research. 10 shields (warrior) + 40 gold = 1 swordsman. I'll do that over building the darn thing for 30 shields. Saves a lot of time. And that's worth the money to me.

But that in a way is my argument for disbanding. By sending waves of obsolete units to new cities I get instant libraries and temples. Building shiny new units generally only takes 3 to 7 turns. I do have to admit though that upgrading my defenses is a laborious task. One by one I build new defensive units and ship the old ones out to the perimeter of my territory to be disbanded en masse and contribute to the growth of the newer cities. But boy, is it time consuming. I've often thought about just spending the money to upgrade...

Your tech path... well, getting out of Despotism is a big priority for me.

I agree but even over Literature?

I feel that I do make a mistake often as I tend to build a "cube" of nine cities with my capital centrally located. I quickly build nine cities and then, I tend to forget to build new cities for a while as I'm busily concentrating on city improvements. Perhaps, I'm not doing enough to build new cities. I think my worker use is probably pretty good, except perhaps for my choices regarding railroads...

Anyway, I would suggest reading the threads listed in the topped thread in this very forum: "Must read threads." Loads of good advice in there. Be aware some of it is a little dated, but most of it is still applicable.

-Arrian

Some interesting thought provoking suggestions. Thank you. I will check out that thread.

[Archmage]

Originally posted by Arrian
Oh, one other thing I missed:



I assume this is a stylistic choice. If so, fine, but you have to know that it's hurting you. You're not getting the most out of your terrain.

-Arrian

(sigh) it is stylistic and aesthetic... those railroads are a hideous tangled mess. I suppose I should build them everywhere though...

[Archmage]

Originally posted by vmxa1
At warlord, the GL should be nearly useless for other than culture and braggin rights. I say this because you should be first to nearly all tech by the last tier in the ancient age. This means the GL will yield no tech. If it is netting you tech, you need to look at how you are managing your empire (assuming a decent start).

Uh... it usually nets me a LOT of techs. Five to seven I'd say... But would you say that might be because I'm beelining literature and it's construction, even forgoing the techs I could learn much faster like pottery and masonry?

[Archmage]

Originally posted by Tall Stranger
As usual, Arrian's posts hit most of the key points. The only things I would emphasize are:

1. Don't be afraid to be a warmongering republic. Provided you set reasonable goals and develop a good, quick-strike war plan, you can handle the war weariness very easily. My guess is that, at the Warlord level, one or two luxuries will be more than enough to control weariness. The econ benefits of rep over monarchy are huge.

I might try that as well. Thank you. But what about warmongering later with democracy? I remember playing a game once with republic and democracy and being shocked at the difference in money AND research...

[Arrian]

I've warmongered with Demo, sure. It does require either overwhelming force, a limited objective, or both. Having universal suffrage helps too, of course.

Republic warfare often just requires a little more reliance on the luxury slider. If you have a few luxuries, playing on Warlord, you really shouldn't have much trouble. If war weariness starts really kicking in, make peace and wait a bit, and then hit again in 20 turns (when the peace deal runs out. That way you don't ruin your rep).

Regarding literature... yeah, I'll often ignore it and just race for republic, and then come back to get it. The GL just isn't that big a deal to me. It used to be a cornerstone of my gameplay, but I've gotten better at a number of things since then, and now, playing on Monarch, I view the GL as a luxury. I'd MUCH rather have the Pyramids... or a solid army.

One of the keys for me is learning how to get the most out of tech trades with the AI civs. Granted, playing on Monarch, the AI has more useful things for trade than it will on Warlord, where it's research is crippled. Still, at least the starting techs should be traded for.

Let's say you start as... Egypt. This gives you Masonry and Ceremonial Burial to start. Well, if you meet Rome, you can trade Masonry + gold or Masonry + CB for Alpabet. You can then turn around and sell the Alphabet to someone else if you meet them before the Romans do. In this manner you can often acquire most of the 1st tier techs.

Pottery has become my #1 choice for first thing to research (if I'm not expansionistic, of course). It allows granaries, and granaries allow growth and expansion at a greatly accelerated rate. I almost always build a granary in my capitol. Often before building my first settler.

Regarding expansion in general: well, nine cities isn't very many.... and I play on Standard Maps. You say you play on Huge maps (the largest). On Huge maps, 9 cities is a pittance. DEFINITELY build more. Many more. I'm not nearly as experienced on that map size, but I'd say that you ought to have more like 20 cities by the time you finish your initial (peaceful) expansion.

-Arrian

[ducki]

would you say that might be because I'm beelining literature and it's construction, even forgoing the techs I could learn much faster like pottery and masonry?

If the GLib is netting your Pottery and Masonry, I'll venture a guess that you're not trading techs. If true, you could probably reduce your dependence on the Library by trading.

Additionally, if you're as warlike as you sound, if the AIs aren't willing to trade, they should be willing to give techs when you sue for peace.

I also used to depend on the GLib at Regent and Monarch, but once I learned to tech trade and got better at managing my empire, I found myself only looking to build it in order to deny it to the AI or if it was convenient.

With C3C, I find other wonders are more important to me unless I'm unable to keep up in the tech race.

At least you don't have to unlearn being a pure builder like I did. If you're warmongering, I'd say you should move up a level and learn to love upgrading.

[Theseus]

Work hard (i.e., mine). Get as many luxuries as possible. Trade often. Extort.

/me thinks those are words to live by.

[Dominae]

Originally posted by Archmage
But that in a way is my argument for disbanding. By sending waves of obsolete units to new cities I get instant libraries and temples. Building shiny new units generally only takes 3 to 7 turns.

You have to disband a lot of units to get even a couple of free Temples or Libraries. Because disbanding is so inefficient (at least, until the Modern era), you should never disband units unless you're running into money problems.

Arrian is right, Gold is a lot more accessible than Shields. Especially if you like building the Great Library; the less Commerce you need to spend on techs, the more Gold you have in the bank.

Try building a bunch (say, 30) Horsemen in the Ancient age, and save Gold to upgrade them all the way to Cavalry as the game progresses. Then try doing the same with Spearmen, which upgrade all the way to Mechanized Infantry! You'll be surprised at how much time your cities then have to build improvements (like Marketplaces, which bring in more Gold for...more upgrades!).


Dominae

[Cort Haus]

Hang on, I think something might have been missed here - Archmage is using Acclerated Production, which is a substantially different game. Shields are now cheap compared to Gold, and the one time I tried it, shiny new units are indeed very quick to build, and the AI's all had got monster armies.

Accelerated Production quite significantly alters the balance of a game, and you'll probably find that most people around here don't use it, as standard game rules are really a pre-requisite for sharing strategies.

My 1 Euro's worth for Archmage, - switch Accelerated Production off then try the advice offered by the folks here - it'll probably be more appropriate than when applied to a modded game (which Acc. Prod is).