50 turn techs

[sabrewolf]

so summary of this thread (and other stuff) so far of what will change imho:
++ = a lot stronger ; + = strengthend ; 0 = neutral ; - = weakend ; -- = a lot weaker
(this is relatively speaking 10-2 is still better than 4+2

°°°traits:
°scientific ++ : higher chance SGL
°commercial + : alphabet is more valuable (curragh, nearer to philosophy), but devalued because seafaring start with this too
°religious + : more governments mean more fast switching
°expansionist + : communication and map trade later, goody huts can give you philosophy ==> another tech too
°industrial - : work speed decreased; devalued because pottery is starting trait of agricultural too
°militaristic - : no cheaper harbors, MGLs can't build wonders

°°°govs:
°communism + : secret police and other stuff, now better for towns and cities (old:T2,C4,M8 ; new:T6,C6,M6)
°republic 0 : higher unit costs, but new some free ones (T1,C3,M4)
°monarchy&democracy 0 : stay the same

°°°wonders:
°leo's ++ : upgrades are more expensive now, leo's saves 50% more than before
other stay more or less the same

°°°civs:
° celts +++ : now agricultural and GS nearly half the price
° aztecs - : JW 50% more expensive
° spanish, english, america + : their UU may even make sence now
° expansionistic civs + : scout&expansionist makes them good tech brokers because communication & map trading pushed to 2nd half of medieval
° industrious civs -
other depending on map. eg. losing exp. can be bad on larger but better on smaller maps.


uhm, there's a lot more, but i'm too lazy now. feel free to add/correct stuff...

[Dominae]

Originally posted by sabrewolf
° celts +++ : now agricultural and GS nearly half the price

Gallic Swordsmen cost 50 Shields in Play the World. They now cost 40.


Dominae

[Theseus]

Originally posted by alexman
...MGL can't rush great wonders (but they can rush small wonders and other improvements)

And?

What can see over mountains?

And?

What can pillage at will?

And?

What heals in a moment?

[Dominae]

Theseus is a happy Civver!

[zorbop]

the MGL thing does not seam like a big deal. At diety, i consider it a lost cause to even bother with wonders before industrial age(plus, i always look at it and think"this wonder, or 15 midi infantry?" , and their arn't even that many wonders that i care for besides sufferage (which i will not need because of fascism), Hoovers and theory of evolution...

however i can see militaristic being worse. I heard a rumor of military acadamy NOT needing a victorious leader.

btw, does heroic epic increase chance of scientific GL's

[sabrewolf]

Originally posted by Dominae
Gallic Swordsmen cost 50 Shields in Play the World. They now cost 40.

Dominae

damn... you're right

i guess that 50 so early seems a lot more

40 may be appropriate in that case although 50 wasn't wrong... as long as they don't upgrade to medieval infantry

[vulture]

The 50 turn to 40 turn will be a big difference in some cases, not so much in terms of your research but in terms of your ability to trade it. As we all know, the AI maxes out on science in the ancient era, and will take researching something in 39 turns at 100% science over getting it in 40 with 10% science (and a lot of cash). If you research the same tech in 40 turns, starting at the same time, then yuo get the tech one turn later, and save 40 turns of cash, but generally find you lose out by not being able to trade the tech to anyone, and so having to spend all that cash buying the techs you could have traded for (never actually checked out which is better value for money - my guess would be that having the tech is more important than the cash, unless the trading situation is bad).

Moving the upper limit from 40 to 50 turns means that techs on the edge (such as Mysticism, in most of my games (Emperor, standard or large maps)) are now definite active research jobs, and more of the 40-turn techs (Polytheism, if you are bee-lining for monarchy as a religious civ, or writing if you are commercial) will now become 'on the edge' techs where the AI might snaffle it in 47 turns and cut you out of the trade loop.

[Mountain Sage]

Ahhh...
The militaristic trait is going
Players have to BUILD wonders
Upgrades are more

Ah well, It's good to know the gods of civ3 have accepted the humble request of civ3' PP

[sabrewolf]

mountain sage (fellow citizen )
i think some breakaway guys got the a$$e$ kicked in MP against some sid-level-warmongers like arrian and could bare the defeat. so they changed the rules

[Thoth]

Sabrewolf:

I'm looking forward to the changes. Developing new strategies is a big part of the fun of this game for me. From what I've seen posted about C3C, we'll have to come up with some new ways of trashing the AI. :d

[vulture]

As a footnote to my own comments above, I forgot to mention the other benefit of researching in 39 turns at 100% science vs 40 turns at 10% - scientific great leaders.

I think there are going to be far fewer great wonders rushed in C3C, if military GL can no longer do the job.

[Arrian]

Sid-level warmonger, my ass. I'm a Monarch-level wonder hog - that's what I am. The warmonger part came from the wonder-hogging.

-Arrian

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Mountain Sage
Ahhh...
The militaristic trait is going
Players have to BUILD wonders
Upgrades are more

Ah well, It's good to know the gods of civ3 have accepted the humble request of civ3' PP

Except that those Pike to Musket upgrades are going to be even more expensive now.

I like the SGL thing though. About time. I expect that those of us who always research hard anyway rather than hoarding and buying will adapt more easily to the new regime. I wonder if someof our warmachines here will become research-engines instead?

[AJ Corp. The FAIR]

With 50 turns tech research and communication trading much later ancient and medieval eras will play differently from now. I suppose the ancient era will remain much longer 'ancient' than before and I'll definitely like it!!

AJ

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

The Ancient Era is much more flexible now.

At least, that's how it seems...

Seems easy to do both a mass upgrade and pump up research... and that philosophy + free tech?

wowza is all I have to say.