fane7's game

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by fanes7
We can consider a situation like this:

You have a savefileA, you save this file as savefileB, so you can play with savefileB.

After Leader appeared by using savefileB, you can too create Leader by using savefileA in same way.

Yes that is true and is not the issue. If you have two saves that are identical and play them identically with a preserved RNG, you get the same results, we know that.

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by fanes7
Yesterday my leader appeared at 3150BC, very lucky!

Well that is nice, but the statement does us little good. what is needed is a log that can be replicated.

What Saberwolf was saying is that he used a tool to look at the saves and saw that 10 reloads had occurred in the space of 20 turns. This would seem excessive for any normal stop/start play. One may stop a couple of times in a day, maybe more. 10 in 20 turns suggest an effort to alter the outcome.
I say suggest as I have had a few occasion where I was being interrupted, but probably not 10 in 20 turns. Well at the height of my problems with crashing, I had to load over and over to get past a single turn. That was corrected by a new video card.

Anyway what is needed is a log of steps leading up to the leader. A save some time near that point, so people can duplicate the run. Getting a number of leaders to met the claim of getting all wonders and then it is settled.
We said some time ago, if you are using massive reloads to get the elites and then the leaders, then just say so and we can go on our way.
Are you now saying you must have a huge map to perform the feat? It sounds like you are off and running as it sits.

[Master Zen]

What I would suggest: if fanes7 gets a leader, post the save game, say, 3-4 turns before it happens. Then post an exact log of every move including WF and diplomatic moves. That way, the player can replicate exactly the situation and see if it generates the leader.

[Dominae]

Question: how do the saves record the number of reloads? It seems to me like you could do as fanes7 says: make two identical copies of a save file, tinker with one until you get a Great Leader, then play from the second one. The second save would have no record of tampering.

So if you had enough time you could do a more or less exhaustive run-through of all possible combats in the early-game, and then only keep the best results. You could hide this by making copies of the "clean" saves periodically.


Dominae

[ToeTruck]

Free Will!

Originally posted by Dominae
So if you had enough time you could do a more or less exhaustive run-through of all possible combats in the early-game, and then only keep the best results. You could hide this by making copies of the "clean" saves periodically.

This is a tricky topic.

There is something very appealing in the notion that the world is completely deterministic. Kind of absolves you from all blame, doesn't it?

Yet there is something repugnant there as well. I think that is what we are all responding to. Many of us (and fanes7 for sure) live for the "do over".

That just stinks!

Thank you fanes7, you have reminded me of why I love playing games in the first place.

When I game, I put my best foot forward and see what happens. Again and again if need be. Over time, I learn a little bit and then a little bit more and then, after that, even then a little bit more. Kind of like life it is.

End Rant.

- TT

[fanes7]

Originally posted by Master Zen
vmxa1, got the .bix file

Here's the save in PTW 1.14 version for fanes7. No excuses, let the leader hoarding begin...

I see only me download this file.

:-(

I wish you download this file too, and we can play it together. After you load this file in your PtW , I will tell you how to play and make the Leader appear in 3150BC,

Pls , thanks.

[vmxa1]

Well I have never had a leader by 3150, at least not that I can recall, so what is the point? Anyway the game will play a bit differently for anyone using 1.27F.
Anyway the game was put there for you to show us the way. We don't know how to do it.

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by Dominae
So if you had enough time you could do a more or less exhaustive run-through of all possible combats in the early-game, and then only keep the best results. You could hide this by making copies of the "clean" saves periodically.

Dominae

Wow, I could think of a million better ways to spend my time than doing all that!!

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by vmxa1
Well I have never had a leader by 3150, at least not that I can recall, so what is the point? Anyway the game will play a bit differently for anyone using 1.27F.

I installed PTW 1.14 (on a separate directory) to make the save game. I can try and replicate his results with that copy.

[fanes7]

hehe... The history can't be changed, and that is why we play the game,

All of us want to load the history at 4000BC or other time-point and replay the history , So all we do in the game is find a right path for history , what is the most efficient , most peaceful , most civilized and most glorious route for the thousands of history paths.


hehe, I said this before. Game means history can be changed. Because the Central Kindom 's glorious pass , he is always the most strong one in the game , both in AgeofEmpire and Civ

[Theseus]

What?

[vmxa1]

I didn't realy understand this the first time you said it.
Me, I have no interest in the history part of it and pay no attention to it. I just like TBS.

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by Master Zen

I installed PTW 1.14 (on a separate directory) to make the save game. I can try and replicate his results with that copy.

Thanks Master Zen, now all you need is some to replicate other than rhetoric.

[Dominae]

fanes7, there must be a huge language difficulty/barrier here, because I'm amazed at how you still do not understand that what you're doing is construed (by most people) as cheating.

It's your own game, you can do whatever you want with it. If you think that finding the best path (i.e. the one that creates the most Leaders) through the moves of any given game is fun, so be it.

But please understand that most people do not play that way. They play through the game once, without reloading to alter results (or "find the best path", as you put it). I doubt anyone on this strategy forum does it on a regular basis.

Therefore, you are playing by a different set of rules than everyone else here. So there's no point in bragging on these forums about how good a player you are, and how you've found a GL-generating "strategy". Your tip is not one of gameplay, but meta-gameplay. The "reload" option is not one that I consider "strategic".

It's as though we're in the Olympics, and you're using steroids. Sure, you might be faster/stronger than me, and you might even think its okay for you to be doing what you're doing. But for you to brag about how good you are, when really its just the drugs that give you an edge, is silly.


Dominae

[vmxa1]

This is the part that is so odd. His English seems pretty good to me and yet no matter how straight forward I put it, do you use reloads, no straight yes or no.
The only reason I have some interest, is I don't even see how it is possible to get all the wonders on deity with leaders by reloading. I can image some increase, but not on an almost demand basis. I guess the raging barbs is the key to getting up to the elite for all units. It sounds like a lot of work.