Koreans and the Early Game

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Arrian
I've come to really enjoy early archer wars.

You will join us. Resistance is futile!

For the newbies among us: I remember a thread about the most useless unit, and Arrian said hands down, the archer.

About the land issue:

A standard map has 100x100/2 = 5000 tiles (land and water), with 8 civs that is 625 per civ.

A huge map has 160x160/2 = 12800 tiles, with 16 civs that is 800 per civ.

Both values have to be multiplied by 20%, 30% or 40% to get the land tiles available on average. The huge/16 map gives more tiles per civ.

[vmxa1]

I have to cop a plea on that as well. I was not fond of archers as they upgrade to Longbows and that is a long time later.
I am much more tolerant of them now and have a bit more respect for longbows as well.
So I will take my lumps as well. Won't be the last time I get the foot in mouth disease.

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

So, if a huge world offers about 125% land of the standard world, how many core cities should one build before attacking?

[Harovan]

If you're archerrushing 1 civ, 2 cities with barracks are enough. If you have more neighbors (like on a huge map) and need more forces, 3-4 cities. If you attack later, with horses and swords, you should have much more cities, like 8-10 at least. Not because these units are worse than archers, but because by then the AI also has more military.

[TheArsenal]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph

A standard map has 100x100/2 = 5000 tiles (land and water), with 8 civs that is 625 per civ.

A huge map has 160x160/2 = 12800 tiles, with 16 civs that is 800 per civ.

Both values have to be multiplied by 20%, 30% or 40% to get the land tiles available on average. The huge/16 map gives more tiles per civ.

Interesting. It seemed like there was more room per civ, but I've never seen the math. How does this break down with max civs a Large Map?

[Harovan]

Originally posted by TheArsenal
Interesting. It seemed like there was more room per civ, but I've never seen the math. How does this break down with max civs a Large Map?

130x130/2/12 ~ 704

[Arrian]

For the newbies among us: I remember a thread about the most useless unit, and Arrian said hands down, the archer.

I did, in fact, say that. I retract that statement. I was wrong.

As for # of cities prior to (main) attack...

I will often have 10-12 cities on a standard map by the time I open up the big can 'o whoopass (this does not count early settler bopping and whatnot). So, I guess I'd say 12-15 on a huge map.

-Arrian

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

And assuming your foes have a similar number of cities, and you have no military edge (Korea), how many troops of what nature will you build? Will 15 vet swords still be enough, or will have have additional backing troops? (I know I've asked this question a number of times in different forms, and there's no "definitive" answer, but, sue me.)

[BRC]

Originally posted by Yahweh Sabaoth
And assuming your foes have a similar number of cities, and you have no military edge (Korea), how many troops of what nature will you build? Will 15 vet swords still be enough, or will have have additional backing troops? (I know I've asked this question a number of times in different forms, and there's no "definitive" answer, but, sue me.)

Using concentration of force, 15 swordsmen will be enough to knock down a few cities probably. Then you can sue for a very favorable peace. I would bring vet spearmen to cover each stack of swords, and maybe a few horsies, but those swords will cause plenty of damage. Once your momentum slows, start thinking about terms of peace.

Now if you don't like swords, then packs of horses work amazingly well against the AI. I actually prefer horses, as their 2 movement allow me to oscillate on a few AI's, instead of just crushing one.

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Originally posted by BRC
Now if you don't like swords, then packs of horses work amazingly well against the AI. I actually prefer horses, as their 2 movement allow me to oscillate on a few AI's, instead of just crushing one.

I also prefer horsemen, but they're not too hot on mountainous terrain, and I've noticed that the Koreans get packed in pretty easily by their neighbors, meaning that short-distance troops such as swords might be a better choice.

I've also noticed that the Koreans tend to start around a lot of mountain ranges, if they're near any river. Now, this could obviously be coincidence. But this has happened to me about 15 times in a row (my world settings are "standard").

[Arrian]

I like to use a combination of the two (horse/sword). That works best.

As for # of troops... well, that depends on what you're after. Do you want to build, while doing a bit of fighting. Or do you want to fight, while building a bit?

To the best of my knowledge, the choice of civ has no bearing on what type of terrain you start on. Korea could start in a jungle on game and in icy tundra the next.

-Arrian

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Originally posted by Arrian

To the best of my knowledge, the choice of civ has no bearing on what type of terrain you start on. Korea could start in a jungle on game and in icy tundra the next.

-Arrian

And in my experience so far, it is this sort of terrain they tend to start on. But this too shall pass.

As for number of troops v. building... building can wait until those Mongols, Chinese, Indians, Japanese, Arabs and Persians are gone, thanks.

[Arrian]

Oh, ok then. The answer is lots.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Getting them to fight each other can be a real help too, and being commercial means writing (need embassies for alliances) is just around the corner. Get them fighting each other and they will most likely bleed each other dry. You can land the killing blows.

-Arrian

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Originally posted by Arrian
Getting them to fight each other can be a real help too, and being commercial means writing (need embassies for alliances) is just around the corner. Get them fighting each other and they will most likely bleed each other dry. You can land the killing blows.

-Arrian

I was working this this morning - had the Vikings doing the Indians real nicely - when the Vikings doublecrossed me an took a border city.

Oh, I could've recovered, but I had to go to work in 5 mins anyways, so I just aborted. Back to the drawing board for ole' Wang Kon.